Whipple Installed!

[ccradier]

I was looking at using the s&b intake I have which would change the air flow in and possibly the mass air flow readings due to sensor placement. Also thought about long tube headers. But after purchesing headers, and device and custom tuning. Be about 3 grand for 30 hp and alot more noise. I am contemplating options here, just can't see going this route on cost alone. I talked Janettey raceing on Friday as they have successfully tuned a 7.3 as such with HP Tuners. That would be a third tuning device purchased. The 5 star bdx, the tomahawk from Whipple and then basically the same device as the tomahawk but unlocked. There comes a line that I need to impart on myself and I feel I am more than happy with how the truck performs horse power/torque wise. The Whipple noise is present enough in the cab, no sense in making it more prevalent. As far as long tube headers, I don't like the poppy raspy sound and feel the borla keeps the noise/drone in the cab in check.

 

[Isthatahemi]

I see. I'm keeping it simpler and ordered an MPVI3 ( I own an MPVI2 - but if I decide to pay a tuner, it likely won't work on a 2024).

I intend to clean up the torque truncation in the lower gears, as well as the torque limits, unlock the torque converter in lower gears (reduce driveline lash), have the truck downshift more responsively (part and WOT), especially when using cruise control, raise the rev limit and shift rpm to around 6K in 1st and 2nd, and perhaps install larger injectors.

Not sure what can be done about the WOT CEL's so I'll likely just raise the misfire thresholds by 10%

 

[Isthatahemi]

I was looking at using the s&b intake I have which would change the air flow in and possibly the mass air flow readings due to sensor placement. Also thought about long tube headers. But after purchesing headers, and device and custom tuning. Be about 3 grand for 30 hp and alot more noise. I am contemplating options here, just can't see going this route on cost alone. I talked Janettey raceing on Friday as they have successfully tuned a 7.3 as such with HP Tuners. That would be a third tuning device purchased. The 5 star bdx, the tomahawk from Whipple and then basically the same device as the tomahawk but unlocked. There comes a line that I need to impart on myself and I feel I am more than happy with how the truck performs horse power/torque wise. The Whipple noise is present enough in the cab, no sense in making it more prevalent. As far as long tube headers, I don't like the poppy raspy sound and feel the borla keeps the noise/drone in the cab in check.

My understanding is that injectors are effectively a limitation right away, unfortunately ID1050's are the cure, require a retune, and are about $1000. Not sure you can add 30hp without them, so that becomes another cost.....

Hence why I'm going that route, and then pully'ing down potentially.

 

[ccradier]

Exactly. It just snow balls quickly.

 

[Isthatahemi]

Not that I can relate to. I understand what you are describing, but in the 20k+ miles the truck has had the Whipple installed, the throttle has been very responsive and don't recall any stutter or slight hesitation. The only "quirks" that could be considered to effect performance occur on rare occasions, but you wouldn't really know it if you didn't have a boost gauge. Some of this has already been described, but below is an updated summary.

1. When towing heavy, there have been occasions that it fails to build boost while using cruise control. For example, you are cruising at 65-70MPH with ~15k lbs. As you start to go up a hill the boost builds but you are still losing speed, since the calibration for cruise control doesn't downshift, you start to lug the engine. To counter act this, you lock out 8th (basically forcing it to downshift) and it goes to 7th. But when you go to 7th, even though the RPMS go up, you don't build boost so it has a very similar power to 8th. Then you lock out 7th and then it downshifts to 6th, revving the engine in a power band you don't need boost but if you then immediately unlock 7th, it shifts and runs in 7th with plenty of boost with similar/same incline and load as before and accelerates to the cruise control speed. It's almost as if the bypass valve is not closing in that condition. You wouldn't know anything otherwise (other than continuing to lose speed up the hill) but when it happens, it doesn't lose power, it just doesn't make as much as it should. This is a rare occurrence, but when it does occur, my experience so far has been when cruise control is engaged (which in my opinion, Whipple should update the calibration on). As previously explained, towing heavy with cruise control is manageable, but takes a lot of user input. Towing heavy without Cruise, no problem and shifts as you would expect to maintain speed. Empty with cruise, no problem. Stays in 10th at anywhere from 65 - 80+ with medium hills just supplementing load with boost as required.
2. The calibration will occasionally lug the engine before downshifting. Almost like it gets confused by the input and will immediately open the throttle body, closing the bypass valve, creating boost when you press the pedal, but will think a second or two before putting it in the correct gear. Typically this happens simultaneously. The few times it has occurred, it happened in the 40 - 60 mph range and it was in 9/10th gear already when the pedal was pressed aggressively. It takes a special set of circumstances for this to happen, and in all honesty, probably happens with a stock engine too. 99.9% of the time, you hit the gas and it takes off with no problem. I can recall it happening 2 - 3 times over 20k miles; all with an empty truck (unloaded). Just being nit-picky here.

If you had a supercharged vehicle that was experiencing stuttering or hesitation, assuming it was using a latest release calibration and thorough install, a couple of thoughts would come to mind for diagnostic.

1. The adaptive learning on the transmission is garbage (at least for the 2022's) and turning it off might help determine if it could be a cause. Since I reset and turned off the adaptive learning (5-6k miles so far), it has resolved almost all my shifting sloppiness and the power band is a lot smoother; also shifting in stop & go traffic is more muted and controlled.
2. If you are on wet slippery surface, the nanny controls are quick to pull power. They will even pull power on dry surfaces sometimes under heavy acceleration. Turning off traction control might be a way to see if that is impacting performance. 99% of the time this is a non-issue with my configuration.
3. Check your air filter and ensure that the installer made the appropriate modification to the box to allow additional airflow volume to enter. My experience has been that the AFE oiled air filters get dirty after 5k miles. I ordered 2 spares and change them out every oil change (5k miles). That gives me time to clean the one coming out really well, let it dry for a few days to a week, re-oil and let the oil soak in and disperse. You don't want to under oil, but don't want to over oil either. With the filter location being so close to the MAF sensor, my concern would be an over oiled filter might cause the MAF to read not as accurate. (see photo's below) It might be worthwhile to look at the MAF closely as well.
4. A vacuum leak or improperly installed emission / PCV line. With the way some of the hoses are molded in the kit, it was a challenge to get some of them to seat all the way during install. The shape was just enough out that you had to work the hose a little. If it looks "connected", it may not be. During my final check from the install and prior to starting the engine, I put my hand on every hose and clamp. I found (2) of the vacuum lines that we "thought" were on, were not quite snapped in. Don't know if this would have caused a check engine or some other symptom, but it something that could be easily overlooked.
5. Make sure the bypass valve is opening! If it is not working correctly or closed all the time, the additional air/load might contribute to some hesitation. This is easy to check.

Hopefully this is helpful, let me know if you need any additional information.

View attachment 148622

Any chance you know the AFE part number? Or is it just the OEM F250 filter size?

 

[Isthatahemi]

For anyone looking for it, the AFE part number, for the same washable filter Whipple supplies, which is worth noting is primarily a max power street air filter is AFE #30-10305

 

[Isthatahemi]

Anyone wanting to tune, just an FYI, 24+ Whipple support and F250/350 7.3 support has been announced. That said, I am waiting on HPTuners to unlock the file, and was just told possibly months. Wow.

Still having all the CEL and torque truncation issues.

That said, we did complete a 3800 mile towing trip with out 28ft bumper tow toy hauler at 11.500 lbs, back and forth across the mountains, and the Whipple tune is clearly the way it is to do hard and heavy work, it did that really well, and never got too hot, even in some very heavy throttle steep mountain situations.

So that is the party trick of this package, nothing resembling ultimate performance, but probably the most stout towing arrangement you can buy at any dollar level as far as I am aware. 720hp (after 2nd gear anyhow) can accelerate, all the time, up any grade, into any wind, and is really impressive.

 

[VB!]

Anyone wanting to tune, just an FYI, 24+ Whipple support and F250/350 7.3 support has been announced. That said, I am waiting on HPTuners to unlock the file, and was just told possibly months. Wow.

Still having all the CEL and torque truncation issues.

That said, we did complete a 3800 mile towing trip with out 28ft bumper tow toy hauler at 11.500 lbs, back and forth across the mountains, and the Whipple tune is clearly the way it is to do hard and heavy work, it did that really well, and never got too hot, even in some very heavy throttle steep mountain situations.

So that is the party trick of this package, nothing resembling ultimate performance, but probably the most stout towing arrangement you can buy at any dollar level as far as I am aware. 720hp (after 2nd gear anyhow) can accelerate, all the time, up any grade, into any wind, and is really impressive.

I agree with your towing analysis.

What are the chances that the support will be able to install a "Sport Mode" type setup? Basically, the trucks runs the stock Whipple calibration and then gets wild with a different tune at the push of a button? I'm thinking of a real Jekyll and Hyde type change.

I asked Livernois about this as they have something like this now for the '23+ 7.3but just not for the Whipple. Their response was, "We are not quite ready for the 7.3 + whipple calibrations. I don't think it will be long though, so check back in soon."

 

[Isthatahemi]

When looking at the stock cal, it has the tables and selections for a sport mode. But the option for it to be available (to the driver) is toggled off.

That said, mapping all the items might be a difficult task, unless it’s all mapped, I never dove in that far to find out.

Just lifting the torque limits and fixing the shifting and rev limits will be a huge difference.

 

[Isthatahemi]

Once the file is unlocked, unless the OP objects, I'll post some screenshots and geekery from the Whipple tune and the changes I am making.

 

[gsea]

Any update from @GT-SD? Time to do a wellness check?

 

[GT-SD]

Sorry guys, I have been busy moving and work has me traveling extensively. So haven't been in a position to provide an update:

The reason for the belt coming off and the need for a tow was due to the crank pulley bolt coming loose and allowing the crank pulley to spin. Evidently, it has been loose for a while and allowed the pully to have quite a bit of wear and slippage. In hindsight, the truck had been idling rough for the last month, this was a sign that I brushed off and should have investigated further. This in and of itself is not really a big deal, but what a SAGA it was at the dealer.

So as indicated in the above post, I had the truck towed to the dealer. They diagnosed it and said it needed a new engine. The pulley had damaged the crank and block and they needed to replace it. Then ensued 3 weeks of back and forth, warranty or not, needed or not, etc. About week 3, after asking for photos of the damage to the crank and block and never receiving them, I went to the dealer and looked for myself. I had been to the dealer several times and looked at the pulley, but they had already moved the truck out of the shop and out back, so it wasn't easy to look at. Needless to say, I was pissed. The damage to the crank was just metal smeared on it from the pulley wear and the block “damage” was only the front main seal. So then ensued a week of back and forth with me instructing to clean up the area, take some emery cloth to the crank to remove the high spots, replace the front main seal, new belts and put a new pulley on. What an act of congress that took. All in, about $700 for repairs.

Since the bolt is a (1) time use, at my request, they provided an extra bolt. The truck was picked up on Friday and Saturday morning I had the fan assembly, shroud and intake items removed an out of the way. While the saga was continuing with the dealer, I ordered a crank/pulley pinning kit from Procharger. Saturday morning the new pulley and crank got drilled and pinned and the new bolt put in and torqued. Let me tell you that removing the bolt and retorquing it is a bear. You need someone to hold the pulley with a strap wrench and someone with a big cheater pipe to loosen. It didn’t help the dealer put “extra” locktite on the bolt to keep it from getting loose.

After pining the crank, the truck was driven really aggressively for a few hours, hooked up to heavy load and really tested. The truck ran flawlessly. I have now put over 3,000 miles on it since the incident, towing some and lots of highway and full throttle events. So far so good. The oil was just changed and the samples will be sent out. There was no noticeable glitter or trash in the oil, so we will see what the analysis says.

In my discussions with Whipple, they indicated they may add the pinning process to the instructions and kit. Not sure if anyone else with this setup has experienced this, but it is something you should keep an eye on. The ProCharger pinning kit is cheap and the pinning process is not that difficult, a few hours of work. May be worth doing it anyway.

 

[Isthatahemi]

That’s so crooked they tried to sell you a new engine!!

OK, I’m gonna ask a stupid question, is checking the crank bolt regularly an adequate way to avoid this issue? And what is the crank bolt torque supposed to be? What mileage on the truck when this happened?

 

[ccradier]

Sorry guys, I have been busy moving and work has me traveling extensively. So haven't been in a position to provide an update:

The reason for the belt coming off and the need for a tow was due to the crank pulley bolt coming loose and allowing the crank pulley to spin. Evidently, it has been loose for a while and allowed the pully to have quite a bit of wear and slippage. In hindsight, the truck had been idling rough for the last month, this was a sign that I brushed off and should have investigated further. This in and of itself is not really a big deal, but what a SAGA it was at the dealer.

So as indicated in the above post, I had the truck towed to the dealer. They diagnosed it and said it needed a new engine. The pulley had damaged the crank and block and they needed to replace it. Then ensued 3 weeks of back and forth, warranty or not, needed or not, etc. About week 3, after asking for photos of the damage to the crank and block and never receiving them, I went to the dealer and looked for myself. I had been to the dealer several times and looked at the pulley, but they had already moved the truck out of the shop and out back, so it wasn't easy to look at. Needless to say, I was pissed. The damage to the crank was just metal smeared on it from the pulley wear and the block “damage” was only the front main seal. So then ensued a week of back and forth with me instructing to clean up the area, take some emery cloth to the crank to remove the high spots, replace the front main seal, new belts and put a new pulley on. What an act of congress that took. All in, about $700 for repairs.

Since the bolt is a (1) time use, at my request, they provided an extra bolt. The truck was picked up on Friday and Saturday morning I had the fan assembly, shroud and intake items removed an out of the way. While the saga was continuing with the dealer, I ordered a crank/pulley pinning kit from Procharger. Saturday morning the new pulley and crank got drilled and pinned and the new bolt put in and torqued. Let me tell you that removing the bolt and retorquing it is a bear. You need someone to hold the pulley with a strap wrench and someone with a big cheater pipe to loosen. It didn’t help the dealer put “extra” locktite on the bolt to keep it from getting loose.

After pining the crank, the truck was driven really aggressively for a few hours, hooked up to heavy load and really tested. The truck ran flawlessly. I have now put over 3,000 miles on it since the incident, towing some and lots of highway and full throttle events. So far so good. The oil was just changed and the samples will be sent out. There was no noticeable glitter or trash in the oil, so we will see what the analysis says.

In my discussions with Whipple, they indicated they may add the pinning process to the instructions and kit. Not sure if anyone else with this setup has experienced this, but it is something you should keep an eye on. The ProCharger pinning kit is cheap and the pinning process is not that difficult, a few hours of work. May be worth doing it anyway.

View attachment 226078View attachment 226079

View attachment 226081

WOW! Speechless!!!!! What a bunch of asshats.

 

[X5Pilot]

That’s so crooked they tried to sell you a new engine!!

OK, I’m gonna ask a stupid question, is checking the crank bolt regularly an adequate way to avoid this issue? And what is the crank bolt torque supposed to be? What mileage on the truck when this happened?

Got this out of my shop manual.

With the aid of an assistant, use a Strap Wrench to install a new crankshaft pulley bolt.
Use the General Equipment: Strap Wrench
Torque :
Stage 1: 66 lb.ft (90 Nm)
Stage 2: Loosen: 360°
Stage 3: 129 lb.ft (175 Nm)
Stage 4: Tighten an additional : 150°

 

[X5Pilot]

Sorry guys, I have been busy moving and work has me traveling extensively. So haven't been in a position to provide an update:

The reason for the belt coming off and the need for a tow was due to the crank pulley bolt coming loose and allowing the crank pulley to spin. Evidently, it has been loose for a while and allowed the pully to have quite a bit of wear and slippage. In hindsight, the truck had been idling rough for the last month, this was a sign that I brushed off and should have investigated further. This in and of itself is not really a big deal, but what a SAGA it was at the dealer.

So as indicated in the above post, I had the truck towed to the dealer. They diagnosed it and said it needed a new engine. The pulley had damaged the crank and block and they needed to replace it. Then ensued 3 weeks of back and forth, warranty or not, needed or not, etc. About week 3, after asking for photos of the damage to the crank and block and never receiving them, I went to the dealer and looked for myself. I had been to the dealer several times and looked at the pulley, but they had already moved the truck out of the shop and out back, so it wasn't easy to look at. Needless to say, I was pissed. The damage to the crank was just metal smeared on it from the pulley wear and the block “damage” was only the front main seal. So then ensued a week of back and forth with me instructing to clean up the area, take some emery cloth to the crank to remove the high spots, replace the front main seal, new belts and put a new pulley on. What an act of congress that took. All in, about $700 for repairs.

Since the bolt is a (1) time use, at my request, they provided an extra bolt. The truck was picked up on Friday and Saturday morning I had the fan assembly, shroud and intake items removed an out of the way. While the saga was continuing with the dealer, I ordered a crank/pulley pinning kit from Procharger. Saturday morning the new pulley and crank got drilled and pinned and the new bolt put in and torqued. Let me tell you that removing the bolt and retorquing it is a bear. You need someone to hold the pulley with a strap wrench and someone with a big cheater pipe to loosen. It didn’t help the dealer put “extra” locktite on the bolt to keep it from getting loose.

After pining the crank, the truck was driven really aggressively for a few hours, hooked up to heavy load and really tested. The truck ran flawlessly. I have now put over 3,000 miles on it since the incident, towing some and lots of highway and full throttle events. So far so good. The oil was just changed and the samples will be sent out. There was no noticeable glitter or trash in the oil, so we will see what the analysis says.

In my discussions with Whipple, they indicated they may add the pinning process to the instructions and kit. Not sure if anyone else with this setup has experienced this, but it is something you should keep an eye on. The ProCharger pinning kit is cheap and the pinning process is not that difficult, a few hours of work. May be worth doing it anyway.

View attachment 226078View attachment 226079

View attachment 226081

Did you buy the Dodge or the GM pin kit?

 

[Isthatahemi]

Got this out of my shop manual.

With the aid of an assistant, use a Strap Wrench to install a new crankshaft pulley bolt.
Use the General Equipment: Strap Wrench
Torque :
Stage 1: 66 lb.ft (90 Nm)
Stage 2: Loosen: 360°
Stage 3: 129 lb.ft (175 Nm)
Stage 4: Tighten an additional : 150°

Thanks for that!

Hmm, torque to yield bolt I’m guessing.

So it’s a guess as to what it sits at (for inspection purposes).

Perhaps worth replacing at some interval.
Sorry if I missed it what mileage were you at when all this happened?

 

[GT-SD]

Did you buy the Dodge or the GM pin kit?

I ordered one specifically for the 7.3L Godzilla. Here is the link:

https://crpfab.com/products/procharger-superchargers-3fzmm-002

 

[GT-SD]

Hmm, torque to yield bolt I’m guessing.

Yes. Torque to yield bolt.

So it’s a guess as to what it sits at (for inspection purposes).

There are a couple of ways that I think this could be managed:

• Check the torque value with 129ft-lbs. Since you have to torque significantly higher than that, it should instantly click when checking. If it doesn't, then you need to inspect and replace the pulley
• Visually. I noticed a few weeks before when I had the hood up with the engine running that the pulley looked a little wobbly. It was during the diagnosis of the intermittent squeak. Again, this should have sent off alarm bells, but I just buttoned it up and went on my way. Now that the new pulley is on, it runs true and straight.

Bottomline is this. The engine was talking to me, as most rotating equipment does before a problem, I wasn't listening (or at least I wasn't looking in the right places).

Sorry if I missed it what mileage were you at when all this happened?

The truck was at ~42,300 or ~41k with the Whipple kit installed.

 

[Isthatahemi]

Yes. Torque to yield bolt.


There are a couple of ways that I think this could be managed:

• Check the torque value with 129ft-lbs. Since you have to torque significantly higher than that, it should instantly click when checking. If it doesn't, then you need to inspect and replace the pulley
• Visually. I noticed a few weeks before when I had the hood up with the engine running that the pulley looked a little wobbly. It was during the diagnosis of the intermittent squeak. Again, this should have sent off alarm bells, but I just buttoned it up and went on my way. Now that the new pulley is on, it runs true and straight.

Bottomline is this. The engine was talking to me, as most rotating equipment does before a problem, I wasn't listening (or at least I wasn't looking in the right places).


The truck was at ~42,300 or ~41k with the Whipple kit installed.

Thanks for the detailed reply, it is appreciated! I'm at ~29k miles after just 10 months, so not too far behind you.

I will be checking that bolt, and yes, when the machines talk we gotta listen, I had a noise on my KTM 1290 this weekend, i was gonna ignore it, instead, turned around and fixed the issue, made me late on a busy day.....you sound like a busy guy, sometimes it's hard to hit pause and deep dive what you know will be a headache.

Cheers.