Toyo Open Country R/T Trail Vs ATIII Vs Falken Wildpeak A/T4W Vs Wildpeak R/T01 Vs Nitto Ridge Grappler

[thinkgreen216]

I’ve had the trail grapplers and ridge grapplers both in 35x12.50/20 and I will say the Ridge grapplers were 100% better than the trail grapplers. My trail grapplers started to crack around the lugs of the tire and they howled driving down the highway. When I swapped them out for the ridge grapplers it was a day and night difference. The ridge grapplers were considerably more quiet, they wore better and I never had any cracking or dry rot issues. On my current truck I’m running Falken Wildpeak R/T01 in a 37x12.5/18 and so far they’ve been pretty good tires. I’ve put about 6K miles on them and they are fairly quiet going down the highway, they ride nice. They’ve been wearing slowly and they did excellent in the snow this last winter. I’ve heard from CJC Off-road that certain brands of tires tend to pull one direction or the other based on design and tread pattern during braking but I haven’t encountered any directional pulling out of these tires under heavy braking.

 

[derichio02]

So the question is… which one throws less rocks. I’ve had the KO3 and AT4’s and they throw rocks like crazy. Never had that issue with Recon or Ridge Grapplers (I live in so cal too).

I’m not sure about the Toyos and if they create concrete projectiles.

 

[thatdood]

My Toyo R/T Trails throw a lot of rocks

 

[Wapitispokes]

Wondering if the compound is different in some sizes. I know a few manufacturers do this. I'm just not seeing the same things people are complaining about with the RGs on my 150. 315/70R17 on that one. I live in the Willamette Valley - wet is an understatement.

I've run Toyo MTs, Toyo ATs, Cooper STTs, Cooper MTPs, several of the Falken Wildpeak line, and am very happy with the Ridge Grappler performance overall for my use case. I have no affiliation with Nitto, I just don't understand all the hate they get.

I respect and acknowledge the value of your experience and appreciate you sharing it!

Your RG's have quite a bit more rubber on the road than the 255/80/17 I'm running on my 4R and your truck may also put more weight on each tire. I probably should have gone with a C or D rated tire on the 4R. At this point since the 4R is only a back up vehicle for short drives around town or more hard core off-roading, I should probably sell the RG's and switch to MT's with more flexible sidewalls.

In a similar vein re: personal experiences, I was speaking with Brandon at CJC (nice and helpful guy) about some future work on my Tremor. I commented that frankly, my 2024 Tremor seems like a nice ride to me....but I also noted that most of my saddle time over the last few years was in a relatively heavily modded 2005 4Runner with 200,000+ miles (the one with the Nitto Ridge Grapplers). Brandon laughed and said, "yeah, another guy I spoke with yesterday complained that his Tremor drove and handled like a dump truck.....so it seems like the ride you are coming from can have a big influence on your feelings about the new ride".

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts! Oh, and to be fair, I was actually impressed how well my second set of RG's on the 4R handled in an awful multi-day, 1,500 + mile blizzard that followed me on a drive from Seattle to Northern Michigan, late October of 2023 (blizzard started in Missoula on day two of the drive...). During that drive I did not do much if any "traction testing" so I can't say for sure how icy it was... I got all the traction reference I needed from the semi's in the ditch and other vehicles fishtailing (what few were on the road) and me sliding on sidewalks. At one point I hung back behind an unweighted pickup (a rare vehicle on the road) somewhere in the Dakotas and when that vehicle started to fishtail I would slow down. The pickup was kind of like my "canary in a coal mine". LOL. Typical speed between Missoula and Minnesota was around 40 mph...maybe occasionally risking 50.... So, I'll give credit where credit is due - the RG's got me through that storm without incident. And I was actually surprised at how well they did since they were my second set (and nearly brand new). Maybe worn RGs don't "age well" ?

 

[FathomBlueSS]

Avoid the Ridge Grappler. I am on on my second set on my 4R (yeah, dumb to have purchased the second set). While they might be good in aggressive off road situations they underperform on wet roads and snow. They are also extremely stiff and as a result offer a stiff ride - but that is more of a 4R problem than a Super Duty Tremor problem.

A little more discussion on your use case would be helpful. For instance, if a vehicle is "mostly driven on road" the question becomes - do you mean paved roads or the Dalton Highway (exaggerating for effect)? Another question becomes what is the "critical" use case. A user might drive "mostly on roads" but their critical use case is off-roading 10% of the time (or a long, hilly, muddy slog on the last mile home). If the downside from a failure to perform in the low frequency use case is vastly more costly / damaging / inconvenient than a little underperformance on pavement, then the selection tilts to a tougher off-road tire. IMO, decisions should not be made simply on volume of use in one scenario of another.

It sounds like you have almost zero need for a tread pattern more aggressive than AT, so don't go more aggressive. Road performance will be worse and noise will be higher.

Lots to unpack here, thanks for your input. Truck is primarily driven on paved roads although it has deteriorated to be about like a dalton road. Ha! It’s a 30 mile stretch of asphalt that is riddled with potholes, cracks and crevices. Small bump compliance improvements would help. I run the Duratracs at 50/45 PSI and get a decent ride and even wear.

When I do drive off-road I am on a fire road or that extent but I don’t drive fast for the sake of not tearing up my equipment and chipping the paint to hell. You won’t see me in my truck rock climbing up Moab.

I think it would be helpful if you explained your rationale and concerns related to 35's vs 37's. IMO, no need for 37's especially since you are not focused on off-roading. However, it appears that you are heavily focused on appearances even at the expense of performance. If true, it then becomes a question of how much do you want to spend to drive a truck with large tires mostly for looks?

Specifically, are you willing to use up a giant amount of bed space for a 37 inch spare (plus mounting expense) or are you prepared to spend yet another $3,600 for a Carli trophy hitch (sales price but tax but w/o shipping or installation....)?

Knowing only what I know now (without having read all the pages in the thread yet) I vote for 35" tires - and avoid the Ridge Grapplers for the reasons you already identified.

The rationale with a 37 vs 35 is two fold. A 37 will give more sidewall and improve small bump compliance tremendously. But, I am not willing to cut my truck, or be surprised with a rub after spending money on tires, and will not store a spare in my bed. I use my bed.

The trophy hitch is nice and a welding work of art. It appears it’s paired better with the DPF back exhaust for more clearance. It’s also $3600 then what ever the exhaust costs.

I bought Innov8 wheels so I doubt it’s fair to say I am more focused on looks over function. Yes, these wheels look great but they are also forged, extremely high quality and made in USA. Id rather buy once and cry once on quality. Plus some of the popular wheel brands aren’t forthcoming about where they are casting wheels.
All that to be said, looks and appearance do matter so long as they are functional. I’m not buying Michelin LTX’s even though they are very functional. Make sense?

I’m about 85-90% decided on a 35” tire and certainly took Dan’s @BLACKCHERRY input about the R/T’s riding like Forklift tires. He may know a thing or two about ride quality. So the tire brand and style is still up in the air. I do like that the Toyo is made in Georgia and sounds like they balance well. Although I like the Falken having true measurements at 35.1” diameter vs the Toyo 34.5”.

 

[Wapitispokes]

Lots to unpack here, thanks for your input. Truck is primarily driven on paved roads although it has deteriorated to be about like a dalton road. Ha! It’s a 30 mile stretch of asphalt that is riddled with potholes, cracks and crevices. Small bump compliance would help. I run the Duratracs at 45/40PSI and get a decent ride and even wear.

When I drive off-road I am on a fire road or that extent but I don’t drive fast for the sake of not tearing up my equipment and chipping the paint to hell. You won’t see me in my truck rock climbing up Moab.

The rationale with a 37 vs 35 is two fold. A 37 will give more sidewall and improve small bump compliance tremendously. But, I am not willing to cut my truck, or be surprised with a rub after spending money on tires, and will not store a spare in my bed. I use my bed.

The trophy hitch is nice and a welding work of art. It appears it’s paired better with the DPF back exhaust for more clearance. It’s also $3600 then what ever the exhaust costs.

I bought Innov8 wheels so I doubt it’s fair to say I am more focused on looks over function. Yes, these wheels look good but they are also forged, extremely high quality and made in USA. I highly doubt I’ll get a cracked wheel surprise like I could with let’s just say other wheel companies that aren’t forthright about where or how they are made.
All that to be said, looks and appearance do matter so long as they are functional. I’m not buying Michelin LTX’s even though they are very functional. Make sense?

I’m about 85-90% decided on a 35” tire and certainly took Dan’s @BLACKCHERRY input about the RT tires riding like Forklift tires. He may know a thing or two about ride quality. So the tire brand and style is still up in the air. I do like that the Toyo is made in Georgia and sounds like they balance well. Although I like the Falken having true measurements at 35.1” diameter vs the Toyo 34.5”.

Makes sense. I'm jealous about those Innov8's! I think they look fantastic and are obviously top quality. When I was reading BlackCherry's comments on wheels & tires (and I noticed he, like many others, favors the Innov8's, *I think* he said he was running 35's until recently. If so he must have been meaning on his "daily driver". Not the Ram that he rides hard and puts away broken. LOL>. Obviously Dan / BlackCherry he is an "enthusiast" with options & opportunities. Seems like a great guy, certainly generous in his offers, and likely one of the best wheel, tire and suspension (duh) sources around!

BTW, I think I really understand. your struggle because I''ve been pining away for 37's myself, but have decided to run what I have probably for two more years, then decide.

It wouldn't be a big deal to just "try out 37's", especially if you own wheels with proper offset, etc., except for the issue with the spare. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the cost of the trophy hitch. In your case, if you are not doing remote off-roading, or even remote - FS roads with lots of sharp rocks, then you might consider just "trying" the 37's and carry a regular size spare. I think that is what I would do in that situation. Maybe throw an unmounted 37 in the bed if traveling far (I have onboard air). But I'm just some unknown, reasonably cautious older mature guy on a forum. Or maybe I'm AI. LOL.

I'll be quite interested in seeing where you land an how you feel about it down the road. Be sure to check back in a year after your install. Exciting times. Good luck and have fun!!

 

[Optimus🤖]

Methinks it doesn't rain a lot in S. California. And when it does, it is a heavy seasonal storm. The RG poor wet road performance won't show up so much down there. Perhaps also the warmer temperatures are more accepting of the hard rubber compound - but that is conjecture. My RG did "okay" driving cross country from Seattle to N. Michigan in a massive blizzard when they were brand new. They wouldn't have done so well with 20,000 miles on them. And they just plain suck on wet roads.

RG's are also stiff. Which is a bigger problem on my 4R than it would be on a SD Tremor. I suspect that CJC isn't much of a fan of the RG now. Go to the Carli website - they do not like RG. They prefer the Toyo's and Falkens.

Since I live in Washington State, I prefer to hear tire opinions from folks that have driven a lot in the PNW conditions.

CJC is a fan of RG. That video is only two weeks old. It's not the first time they've put those tires on their builds. Here's the link again in case you missed it. I'll even save you some time so scroll to 2:34. Cody clearly states "one of the best tires on the market."

Carli's expertise is suspension, not tires. And only suspension for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. That's it. I don't care what they say on their website. Every year I go to SEMA and I can't tell you how many builds have RG's on trucks. Last month I went to The Mint 400 and not one truck had a Carli suspension. Last year I went to Baja California and guess what? Not one truck had a Carli suspension.

Is Carli suspension great? Sure it is; for a small market that is. When it's comes to real off-roading, nobody mentions the name.

Last but not least: research, research, research. It's well known that RG's don't do well in wet conditions. Why the hell would anyone put these tires on in wet conditions? That's like me putting snow tires on my truck out here in Vegas.

When it comes to mud terrain, Nittos win again with the Recon Grapplers as evidenced by the following:

Thread 'World’s First 7.3L “Godzilla” V8 swapped 6th-Gen. Ford Bronco' https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/worlds-first-7-3l-godzilla-v8-swapped-6th-gen-ford-bronco.21034/

At the end of the day, it comes down to your specific application combined with environmental circumstances.

 

[McE]

It's well known that RG's don't do well in wet conditions. Why the hell would anyone put these tires on in wet conditions? That's like me putting snow tires on my truck out here in Vegas..

RG keeps getting thrown around and now I’m not sure who means Ridge vs Recon lol. The Ridge Grapplers have given me zero trouble in the rain over the years. Lots of guys I know run them here in wet western Oregon and none of them have complained about performance in wet conditions. Are they the best for it? I don’t know, but they’ve done just as well as all the other tires I mentioned running. Our local off-road shop agrees. I’ve been known to push the limits of traction in the rain when no one is around - drifting around corners is a ton of fun - and the RGs hook up very well.

This is one of those things I hear repeated on the internet constantly but my real world experiences, along with anecdotal evidence of people I know, says otherwise. Makes me wonder how many people ragging on RGs wet performance have actually lived with them in wet conditions vs just repeating what they hear on the internet.

Anyway, this thread is exhausting

 

[gmbpilot757]

RG keeps getting thrown around and now I’m not sure who means Ridge vs Recon lol. The Ridge Grapplers have given me zero trouble in the rain over the years. Lots of guys I know run them here in wet western Oregon and none of them have complained about performance in wet conditions. Are they the best for it? I don’t know, but they’ve done just as well as all the other tires I mentioned running. Our local off-road shop agrees. I’ve been known to push the limits of traction in the rain when no one is around - drifting around corners is a ton of fun - and the RGs hook up very well.

This is one of those things I hear repeated on the internet constantly but my real world experiences, along with anecdotal evidence of people I know, says otherwise. Makes me wonder how many people ragging on RGs wet performance have actually lived with them in wet conditions vs just repeating what they hear on the internet.

Anyway, this thread is exhausting

This isn’t the first tire thread and certainly won’t be the last. Buckle up!

 

[thatdood]

 

[FathomBlueSS]

Isn’t this first tire thread a certainly won’t be the last. Buckle up!

HA! You are right, and I recognize that. Sometimes these start to end up like a Ford, Chevy, Ram or which oil is best thread. I was hoping to get a consolidated poll with real world experience on the each's. Hopefully it stays on track.

 

[Whaler27]

The problem with threads seeking advice on tire traction is that every response is based on different definitions, measures, and priorities. Even the term “offroad” means something very different to each of the three guys living in Washington, Utah, and Georgia. In my experience, the BFG KO2 worked great offroad in Arizona, Colorado, and Utah, but it was as worthless as raceway slicks in Georgia, because they immediately turned into slicks once they hit 2 inch deep Georgia clay.

When folks say tire X is “great in the snow” do they mean it works well digging in deep snow for 4-wheel play, or are they talking about traction on highway hard-pack compressed into sections of ice? The tires optimized for one are awful on the other.

When people say “wet traction is great”, are they talking about traction on wet pavement AND resistance to hydroplaning when hitting standing water at speed? The Toyo MTs are not prone to hydroplane, as the huge gaps between lugs readily evacuate water, but they don’t provide good traction on wet pavement. The original BFG KOs were good on wet pavement because of the all-position tread pattern, but they hydroplaned easily.

I have very extensive experience driving all vehicle platforms in the very worst weather for work. My three-peak, speed-rated, tires got me everywhere, even on sheet ice — to the point where my AWD charger was pushing snow with the bumper. We also ran studded Duratracs on trucks. They went everywhere — and the northwest has every type of snow and ice, from freezing rain to deep western powder. I run studded Duratracs on my personal truck between November and April, but I have seen people on this forum say Duratracs are lousy winter tires. Others have said the KO2s are terrible winter tires, but I found them to be very good on both winter hard-pack and ice., and my experience is consistent with most of the reviews I’ve found through major American and Canadien tire retailers.

No generalizations hold true everywhere, but I find it useful to think about footwear performance characteristics, as the same general principles apply, and most people have plenty of experience with shoes and boots. Consider your predominant use, then ask yourself if you’s rather be wearing football cleats, tennis shoes, or vibram soles to run and stop on that surface? On mud, Toyo MTs are pretty good, but on ice they’re like football cleats on polished concrete.

Tire Rack and others have composite customer feedback on tire performance that represents diverse experience over thousands of customers and millions of miles. That sample size minimizes some of the differences described here and provides a more useful composite performance summary — but what really matters is what works for your use in your area.

 

[mxvet]

The problem with threads seeking advice on tire traction is that every response is based on different definitions, measures, and priorities. Even the term “offroad” means something very different to each of the three guys living in Washington, Utah, and Georgia. In my experience, the BFG KO2 worked great offroad in Arizona, Colorado, and Utah, but it was as worthless as raceway slicks in Georgia, because they immediately turned i to slicks once they hit 2 inch deep Georgia clay.

When folks say tire X is “great in the snow” do they mean it works well digging in deep snow for 4-wheel play, or are they talking about traction on highway hard-pack compressed into sections of ice? The tires optimized for one is awful on the other.

When people say “wet traction is great”, are they talking about traction on wet pavement AND resistance to hydroplaning when hitting standing water at speed? The Toyo MTs are not prone to hydroplane, as the huge gaps between lugs readily evacuate water, but they don’t provide good traction on wet pavement. The original BFG KOs were good on wet pavement because of the all-position tread pattern, but the hydroplaned easily.

I have very extensive experience driving all vehicle platforms in the very worst weather for work. My three-peak, speed-rated, tires got me everywhere, even on sheet ice — to the point where my AWD charger was pushing snow with the bumper. We also ran studded Duratracs on trucks. They went everywhere — and the northwest has every type of snow and ice, from freezing rain to deep western powder. I run studded Duratracs on my personal truck between November and April.

No generalizations hold true everywhere, but I fine it useful to thing about footwear performance, as most people have plenty of experience with that. Consider your predominant use, then ask yourself if you’s rather be wearing football cleats, tennis shoes, or vibram soles to run and stop on that surface? On mud, Toyo MTs are pretty good, but on ice they’re like football cleats on polished concrete: terrible.

Tire Rack and others have composite customer feedback on tire performance that represents diverse experience over thousands of customers and millions of miles. That sample size minimizes some of the differences described here and provides a more useful composite performance summary — but what really matters is what works for your use in your area.

well said -- kinda goes along with tire pressure numbers as well. Ambient temperatures (highs and lows) take those PSI numbers all over the place. If someone states they run 55 PSI, so much more about ambient temps are needed. If you chalk a tire at 70 degrees what happens when temp drops to 50 and so on...

 

[McE]

The problem with threads seeking advice on tire traction is that every response is based on different definitions, measures, and priorities. Even the term “offroad” means something very different to each of the three guys living in Washington, Utah, and Georgia. In my experience, the BFG KO2 worked great offroad in Arizona, Colorado, and Utah, but it was as worthless as raceway slicks in Georgia, because they immediately turned i to slicks once they hit 2 inch deep Georgia clay.

When folks say tire X is “great in the snow” do they mean it works well digging in deep snow for 4-wheel play, or are they talking about traction on highway hard-pack compressed into sections of ice? The tires optimized for one is awful on the other.

When people say “wet traction is great”, are they talking about traction on wet pavement AND resistance to hydroplaning when hitting standing water at speed? The Toyo MTs are not prone to hydroplane, as the huge gaps between lugs readily evacuate water, but they don’t provide good traction on wet pavement. The original BFG KOs were good on wet pavement because of the all-position tread pattern, but the hydroplaned easily.

I have very extensive experience driving all vehicle platforms in the very worst weather for work. My three-peak, speed-rated, tires got me everywhere, even on sheet ice — to the point where my AWD charger was pushing snow with the bumper. We also ran studded Duratracs on trucks. They went everywhere — and the northwest has every type of snow and ice, from freezing rain to deep western powder. I run studded Duratracs on my personal truck between November and April.

No generalizations hold true everywhere, but I fine it useful to thing about footwear performance, as most people have plenty of experience with that. Consider your predominant use, then ask yourself if you’s rather be wearing football cleats, tennis shoes, or vibram soles to run and stop on that surface? On mud, Toyo MTs are pretty good, but on ice they’re like football cleats on polished concrete: terrible.

Tire Rack and others have composite customer feedback on tire performance that represents diverse experience over thousands of customers and millions of miles. That sample size minimizes some of the differences described here and provides a more useful composite performance summary — but what really matters is what works for your use in your area.

Thoughtful response as always, sir. What makes matters worse with AT or hybrid tire discussions is they are a compromise in every condition. Ideally, we'd swap tires for different conditions. For those that understand the intent and compromises of a given AT or hybrid tire, managing expectations is all that's left.

PS I know a few OR State Troopers - I'll shoot you a DM.

 

[BLACKCHERRY]

CJC is a fan of RG. That video is only two weeks old. It's not the first time they've put those tires on their builds. Here's the link again in case you missed it. I'll even save you some time so scroll to 2:34. Cody clearly states "one of the best tires on the market."

Carli's expertise is suspension, not tires. And only suspension for 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. That's it. I don't care what they say on their website. Every year I go to SEMA and I can't tell you how many builds have RG's on trucks. Last month I went to The Mint 400 and not one truck had a Carli suspension. Last year I went to Baja California and guess what? Not one truck had a Carli suspension.

Not sure why Carli is under attack here... CJC knows their market - 90% of their customers will not do what we do in the videos. The ones that do are best off with an MT; the ones that don't plan to run hard AND would gladly trade ride quality (small bump compliance) for 2x the tread life, get hybrids. You don't think we've picked up an expertise in tires along the way? As for "only 3/4-1 ton", there's some truth to that (we do Jeep, Bronco and 1500 too but you're right, not our bread and butter like HD), but isn't this context the only relevant use case in question in this thread?

SEMA is a marketing show - prevalence there doesn't mean it's the best tire, it means Nitto has an outrageous marketing budget. Further, most builds at SEMA are not performance suspension, they're built as an aesthetic display. As for races, I'm always astounded and humbled at the amount of HD trucks on Carli when I go. Last year's KOH was crawling with Carli rigs (amongst all others, of course). To say "Not one truck" at the Mint had a Carli kit is a flat lie, which i get you're embellishing to make your point. That said, not a lot of SD at the races relative to 1/2-tons so i understand the race front isn't lined with Carli rigs.

Baja... Not many Ram HD or Super Duties down there, natively. If you went on a Raptor run (per your pictures), you'll see Raptors... We don't make parts for Raptors so you wouldn't see any Carli Rigs. We did 3 runs down there last year and more planned for this year. We put more offroad miles on our HD trucks than anyone in our space. We're working with Super Duties; this is a much smaller market than the raptor market - naturally, there will be less of our rigs running around.

TL;DR - The Ridge Grappler and RT don't "suck", but you WILL 100% make sacrifices in both ride quality & traction in exchange for thier tread life - this is a fact. Many are willing to make this sacrifice as they don't want the noise or 30K tread life of an MT; it's just worth mentioning that an AT will offer similar tread life to a hybrid with less ride quality degradation while offering better traction in most situations (all but dirt, really).

 

[Optimus🤖]

RG keeps getting thrown around and now I’m not sure who means Ridge vs Recon lol. The Ridge Grapplers have given me zero trouble in the rain over the years. Lots of guys I know run them here in wet western Oregon and none of them have complained about performance in wet conditions. Are they the best for it? I don’t know, but they’ve done just as well as all the other tires I mentioned running. Our local off-road shop agrees. I’ve been known to push the limits of traction in the rain when no one is around - drifting around corners is a ton of fun - and the RGs hook up very well.

This is one of those things I hear repeated on the internet constantly but my real world experiences, along with anecdotal evidence of people I know, says otherwise. Makes me wonder how many people ragging on RGs wet performance have actually lived with them in wet conditions vs just repeating what they hear on the internet.

Anyway, this thread is exhausting

Threads like these will always be tiring .

 

[TruckFan]

Ridge Grapplers work pretty well but they seemed to wear more quickly after a little bit IMO.

 

[Supercup]

I have a 2022 6.7L - I have 40k miles on a set of 37.12.5x18 ATIII's and still have life left, but time is coming soon - I voted for 37's cause I like the look better - 30k of my 40k have been towing 10k - 17k trailers out to have fun in the dirt with Pro R. Maybe 2k off roading and they were fine for what we were doing. My only complaint about the AT III is the wet weather performance is not great.

Next set coming soon, will be 37's and either new Falken AT, AT III's or Toyo MT's. Given my use the AT is the right choice, but I do like the MT look better.

Enjoy your ride

Mine day they went on!

 

[Supercup]

So the question is… which one throws less rocks. I’ve had the KO3 and AT4’s and they throw rocks like crazy. Never had that issue with Recon or Ridge Grapplers (I live in so cal too).

I’m not sure about the Toyos and if they create concrete projectiles.

Here is a picture of AT III's in the Utah mud - they did throw some mud and rocks to be sure!

 

[Optimus🤖]

Here is a picture of AT III's in the Utah mud - they did throw some mud and rocks to be sure!

View attachment 206899

This pic looks familiar .