23+ Front Axle change too?

[cib2007]

I’ve read the bronco Raptor rear diff cover should fit it, maybe that’s a plus?

 

[Mister Bevilaqua]

Did Ford do us a favor? 2023+ trucks have more front ground clearance since it is a smaller pumpkin?

I can't see them making the axle weaker with higher outputs in these motors. It's obviously a new version of some sort of Dana 50 or something new altogether, but in no way do I expect it to be weaker.

 

[shermanator2]

^^ in all reality, the Tremor has the biggest motors for Trucks that Ford makes with a 7.3g and the HO. Some Ford Engineer had to perform a full torque analysis on the drive train and the structures team had to the analysis on the Mono Beam (bending). I bet it will be fine.

Maybe the new smaller Front diff is full of chrome molly axles to get the power to the ground ?

The tire diameter and weight determine the maximum torque load the differential sees, not the engine power/torque. The smaller differential effects those of you that put 37" and up tires on the most. Think of it this way. In lower gears the engine has plenty of torque to break the tires loose. The torque load on the differential is the tire forward thrust times the tire radius. The drive thrust available before the tire breaks loose is dependent on the weight on the tire and the tire compound. So it is all about axle load and tire diameter. The shock loads when off-road and the tire momentarily looses contact with the ground and then returns will be the big thing.

 

[shermanator2]

I can't see them making the axle weaker with higher outputs in these motors. It's obviously a new version of some sort of Dana 50 or something new altogether, but in no way do I expect it to be weaker.

As I mentioned above, it is not the engine, but the GAWR and tire diameter that matter the most. I too am having a hard time believing that Ford is making it weaker, but the evidence may be hard to dispute. Ring gear diameter and therefor pinion gear diameter are one of the biggest factors in the strength of a differential. The Dana 60 family has been well proven for 60 years or so. Not so much for whatever this is. I am going to start researching getting a MY22 or earlier front axle assembly for my MY24.

 

[Mister Bevilaqua]

As I mentioned above, it is not the engine, but the GAWR and tire diameter that matter the most. I too am having a hard time believing that Ford is making it weaker, but the evidence may be hard to dispute. Ring gear diameter and therefor pinion gear diameter are one of the biggest factors in the strength of a differential. The Dana 60 family has been well proven for 60 years or so. Not so much for whatever this is. I am going to start researching getting a MY22 or earlier front axle assembly for my MY24.

I am not the least bit concerned about it. Until we have direct info from FoMoCo about the specific details on the new axle I am not going to loose any sleep over it.

 

[TARZAN]

It wouldn't be under a Tremor if it wasn't bad ass...

 

[shermanator2]

It wouldn't be under a Tremor if it wasn't bad ass...

When the engineers win, that is true. When the bean counters win, not so much. You have more faith in Ford than I do.

 

[TARZAN]

I haven't seen a post where this axle has failed yet. Go engineers!

 

[Mister Bevilaqua]

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Interesting discussion so far, it would appear that Ford has gone with a Dana 50 here as it's pretty much identical to the 50/M235 un the rear of the Bronco Raptor. I remember Carli saying they needed to re-design their dif cover for the 2023+ lower from steering stabilizer, but not necessarily noting that it was also smaller than the Super 60 front (just that it had more bolts).

FWIW all the Ram HD's have been running 235mm front axles since 2013. The only strength issues on those end up being the tubes themselves, not the ring and pinion. So maybe the Ford's will now need to run a front axles truss same as the Rams that get run hard?

 

[Alpoba]

My 23 front pumpkin now uses a real gasket from factory vs my 22 which had a crappy factory seal that leaked when lower cover bolts were removed.

 

[4wheels and a hitch]

Well duh. Now I find Ford has cheapened my 23 in another way.

 

[MVI]

The Dana/Spicer Model 50 was an automotive axle manufactured by the Dana Holding Corporation for 25 years and was used solely in OEM Ford applications. Dana 50's were made as front axles only until it was revived in rear solid axle configuration in the 2022 Ford Bronco Raptor. The Dana 50 has a "50" cast into the housing and is regarded to have more strength than a Dana 44, but not as much as a Dana 60. It was only produced in a reverse cut gear set aka a high pinion.

The solid axle Dana 50 was used in the Ford F-250 and the F-350 from 1999 to 2003.[1] This axle was also the only OEM axle used in Four-wheel drive Ford Excursions. The GAWR of a solid axle Dana 50 is 5000 lbs.

The 2022 Ford Bronco Raptor utilizes an AdvanTEK M235 (Dana 50) solid rear axle with a 235mm (9.25 in) ring gear and electronic locking differential. The ratio is 4.70:1.[2]

With a throwback to the past, the 2023+ Ford Super Duty F-250 and F-350 come equipped with the Dana Advantek M235 (Dana 50) front axle in high pinion configuration.

 

[MVI]

Axle Details Dana 50

"The Dana 50 axle is exclusive to Ford and has been around for over 25 years. It is only found in high pinion front axle applications, however, it is available in solid axle and TTB (twin traction beam) configurations. The striaght axle can most easily be identified by a "229" cast in to the axle webbing but beware, the solid axle Dana 50 looks identical to the stronger and more desired Dana 60 axle and the internal components are not at all interchangeable. While the Dana 50 features Dana 60 sized knuckles, hubs, and axle tubes, it has a smaller carrier, smaller gears, and axle shafts that infamously taper down right at the splines."

 

[Mister Bevilaqua]

Axle Details Dana 50

"The Dana 50 axle is exclusive to Ford and has been around for over 25 years. It is only found in high pinion front axle applications, however, it is available in solid axle and TTB (twin traction beam) configurations. The striaght axle can most easily be identified by a "229" cast in to the axle webbing but beware, the solid axle Dana 50 looks identical to the stronger and more desired Dana 60 axle and the internal components are not at all interchangeable. While the Dana 50 features Dana 60 sized knuckles, hubs, and axle tubes, it has a smaller carrier, smaller gears, and axle shafts that infamously taper down right at the splines."

If these '23+ trucks in fact have HP D50's then the identifiers of old are no longer valid because mine doesn't have those numbers in the casting.

 

[MVI]

the 2024 F350 has 11,499# GVWR

So the lighter capacity of the front M235, that explains for me the ultra HD rear Sterling Axle to meet that GWVR

 

[MVI]

If these '23+ trucks in fact have HP D50's then the identifiers of old are no longer valid because mine doesn't have those numbers in the casting.

They have M235's - thus you wont find a 50 identifier.

 

[Mister Bevilaqua]

They have M235's - thus you wont find a 50 identifier.

A 235 is basically a D50, a 275 is basically a D80, albeit both with some slight improvements.

 

[shermanator2]

The GAWR of a solid axle Dana 50 is 5000 lbs.

Can someone with a MY23 or 24 F-350 6.7 (12000 lb GVWR) tell us what front GAWR is shown on the door jam sticker?

 

[shermanator2]

So the lighter capacity of the front M235, that explains for me the ultra HD rear Sterling Axle to meet that GWVR

If this is the logic, then we will have to be careful and be sure that the load is placed far aft, particularly with 6.7 trucks. Otherwise the front axle may be overloaded.