2024 MY Super Duty Order/Schedule/Build Thread

ClaudeSS said:
I also want to point out that Ford especially has made some insanely generous offers to the UAW. Offers that most rank and file UAW members would approve in a heart beat. But you can’t kill the business you work for either.
Really not sure the the UAW leadership is looking after their workers or the golden goose that provides the jobs and has to compete with the non union plants.
Ford has always prided and hyped that their products were built in America by American workers. They have promoted that and worked on making things work with an American work force more than any other car maker. But what good did all that do if they go backrupt due to naive UAW management. I’m with the workers. It’s obvious they chose the wrong leader at this point.
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The requests of the UAW leadership is insane. Ford has made a pretty reasonable counter. Honestly, if my workers asked for those kind of benefits I’d have to just close my business. Or my products would be so overpriced that my customers couldn’t afford them.
Which honestly, super duties have gotten so expensive that I stopped buying them regularly and now drive them till they are exhausted. If anything, this strike has made me want to look at other options as I just can’t support the union and their outrageous requests. I support the people, but not the union in this case.
 
Tundra2Tremor said:
Ford said they are losing $48,000 a minute with this strike. This talk about bankrupting Ford is silly. You can't strike every year. With the profits they've seen in the last year - combined with the ongoing financial climate that doesn't seem to be correcting (inflation), they're trying to insure this deal will "future proof" the workers income.
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Hardly: "Ford Motor net income for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $4.136B, a 64.56% decline year-over-year. Ford Motor annual net income for 2022 was $-1.981B, a 111.04% decline from 2021. Ford Motor annual net income for 2021 was $17.937B, a 1502.42% decline from 2020." Any money made goes back into the business to stay competitive and innovate. The transition to E is costly and they are actually losing money on every unit sold. The union is once again ruining the very businesses the depend on with their greed. I was with them on COLA and inflation adjusted pay raises and a few other things but all of that has been addressed at this point it's just pure corrupt greed. Fain doesn't suffer during a strike. Why not let the workers see the latest offer and vote on it before shutting down the largest plant in America and impacted 10's of thousands beyond? Because Fain isn't in it for the workers.
 
pbtjrlmrt said:
Hardly: "Ford Motor net income for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $4.136B, a 64.56% decline year-over-year. Ford Motor annual net income for 2022 was $-1.981B, a 111.04% decline from 2021. Ford Motor annual net income for 2021 was $17.937B, a 1502.42% decline from 2020." Any money made goes back into the business to stay competitive and innovate. The transition to E is costly and they are actually losing money on every unit sold. The union is once again ruining the very businesses the depend on with their greed. I was with them on COLA and inflation adjusted pay raises and a few other things but all of that has been addressed at this point it's just pure corrupt greed. Fain doesn't suffer during a strike. Why not let the workers see the latest offer and vote on it before shutting down the largest plant in America and impacted 10's of thousands beyond? Because Fain isn't in it for the workers.
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Um, hardly? What are you talking about? You might want to check your source or stop standing on your head cuz you’ve got it ALL upside down:

“Ford Motor gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $25.509B, a 9.25% increase year-over-year. Ford Motor annual gross profit for 2022 was $23.66B, a 9.08% increase from 2021. Ford Motor annual gross profit for 2021 was $21.69B, a 50.71% increase from 2020“

Ford Motor Gross Profit 2010-2023 | F

Ford Motor annual/quarterly gross profit history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Gross profit can be defined as the profit a company makes after deducting the variable costs directly associated with making and selling its products or providing its services. <ul...
www.macrotrends.net www.macrotrends.net

And this is from Ford’s own website - quarterly increases by 20% year after year. So NO - not hardly. Just the opposite in fact, but this has been common knowledge.

 
Tundra2Tremor said:
Um, hardly? What are you talking about? You might want to check your source or stop standing on your head cuz you’ve got it ALL upside down:

“Ford Motor gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was $25.509B, a 9.25% increase year-over-year. Ford Motor annual gross profit for 2022 was $23.66B, a 9.08% increase from 2021. Ford Motor annual gross profit for 2021 was $21.69B, a 50.71% increase from 2020“

Ford Motor Gross Profit 2010-2023 | F

Ford Motor annual/quarterly gross profit history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Gross profit can be defined as the profit a company makes after deducting the variable costs directly associated with making and selling its products or providing its services. <ul...
www.macrotrends.net www.macrotrends.net

And this is from Ford’s own website - quarterly increases by 20% year after year. So NO - not hardly. Just the opposite in fact, but this has been common knowledge.

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That's gross profit. It helps to understand the numbers. Gross profit shows how much money your business makes after meeting some costs. Net profit shows how much you make after meeting all costs. A business's gross profit is the money it has left after paying for the goods and services it sold. THe money a business "takes home" is not the gross profit number. Not really controversial...just fact. Taken from your very own post "Net income of $1.8 billion compared to a net loss in the 2022 period that was primarily attributable to a change in the mark-to-market value of the company’s investment in Rivian" Gotta read the whole thing for it to make sense. They are doing well navigating the switch to EV, still the only legacy US auto manufacturer to never go bankrupt and beating their competition except for Tesla but the walls are closing in now this. Ford is the most union friendly of the auto manufacturers and this is what it got them. They don't have to cover healthcare for striking workers but they are voluntarily...I wonder how long before they won't be able to do that.
 
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JHForman812 said:
I didnt read his reply as sarcastic. It sounded like OMG I cant believe workers would ask for money, and benefits.
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All of this is getting old...... i'm not against a fair wage. I agree with most of what the UAW is fighting for; however, 40% pay increase plus tiers, retirement, EV battery contract, etc. What would that look like? Isn't that more like a total package of 50-60%? I wish my pay would double in a month. I'm beginning to think this is more a political strategy and the push to electric vehicles. That would explain why Biden is on board. He's the reason inflation is so bad and people are living paycheck to paycheck, yet the UAW is ecstatic the president showed up for 12 minutes. Just doesn't make sense.
 
FutureTremor24 said:
All of this is getting old...... i'm not against a fair wage. I agree with most of what the UAW is fighting for; however, 40% pay increase plus tiers, retirement, EV battery contract, etc. What would that look like? Isn't that more like a total package of 50-60%? I wish my pay would double in a month. I'm beginning to think this is more a political strategy and the push to electric vehicles. That would explain why Biden is on board. He's the reason inflation is so bad and people are living paycheck to paycheck, yet the UAW is ecstatic the president showed up for 12 minutes. Just doesn't make sense.
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Yet around the country a lot of people get around a 3.5% increase and are happy they got something 🤷‍♂️. Not saying the UAW shouldn’t get more . I honestly wonder how many of these Ford plant workers wish they could except fords current offer on the table?
 
ClaudeSS said:
Seeing reports of people with 10/16 production week already getting “In Production” status and window stickers. (Tuesday (today) the week before production) Also that stickers don’t show up in the build site sticker link but only at the Ford direct site.

Those with 10/26 builds, check your status and your window stickers on the Ford direct window sticker site
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How do you do this on the ford direct website?
 
Mootray said:
Yet around the country a lot of people get around a 3.5% increase and are happy they got something 🤷‍♂️. Not saying the UAW shouldn’t get more . I honestly wonder how many of these Ford plant workers wish they could except fords current offer on the table?
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That’s what I said in another post. My wife got a 3.5% increase at a hospital She works at in Chicago. Then they let them know insurance is going up 6%. Basically they are losing 2.5% next year.

I read an article yesterday about the UPS worker. He was basically saying how amazed he was making $15 an hour and then the next month making $160,000 a year.
 

LT75 said:
That’s what I said in another post. My wife got a 3.5% increase at a hospital She works at in Chicago. Then they let them know insurance is going up 6%. Basically they are losing 2.5% next year.

I read an article yesterday about the UPS worker. He was basically saying how amazed he was making $15 an hour and then the next month making $160,000 a year.
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Conceptually i agree that the increase in medical offsets some of the raise but the medical costs are only a small portion of the total salary so the impact is reduced. Still sucks big time how wages are going against the wind of inflation.
 
Hello... friendly neighborhood business professor here... The operating profit or net profit figures for Ford for Fiscal Year 2022 are not helpful data points for this discussion as Ford is a global organization with several other lines of business that factor into their profitability.

From Ford's most recent 10K filing, I think the automotive segment (starting on page 40) provides better insight. Here you'll find the EBITA for each major segment, which shows Ford was more profitable in the U.S. in 2022 than in 2021, by $1.7B.

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The provide an explanation on the following pages, and I've copied below the section on costs. You can see that there are a multitude of actors that are impacting Ford's earnings within the automotive segment, labor being one of these.
  • Contribution Costs – primarily measures EBIT variance driven by per-unit changes in cost categories that typically vary with volume, such as material costs (including commodity and component costs), warranty expense, and freight and duty costs
  • Structural Costs – primarily measures EBIT variance driven by absolute change in cost categories that typically do not have a directly proportionate relationship to production volume. Structural costs include the following cost categories:
    • Manufacturing, Including Volume-Related - consists primarily of costs for hourly and salaried manufacturing personnel, plant overhead (such as utilities and taxes), and new product launch expense. These costs could be affected by volume for operating pattern actions such as overtime, line-speed, and shift schedules
    • Engineering and Connectivity – consists primarily of costs for vehicle and software engineering personnel, prototype materials, testing, and outside engineering and software services
    • Spending-Related – consists primarily of depreciation and amortization of our manufacturing and engineering assets, but also includes asset retirements and operating leases
    • Advertising and Sales Promotions – includes costs for advertising, marketing programs, brand promotions, customer mailings and promotional events, and auto shows
    • Administrative, Information Technology, and Selling – includes primarily costs for salaried personnel and purchased services related to our staff activities, information technology, and selling functions
    • Pension and OPEB – consists primarily of past service pension costs and other postretirement employee benefit costs

They explain contribution costs and structural costs on page 37:

While contribution costs generally vary directly in proportion to production volume, elements within our structural costs category are impacted to differing degrees by changes in production volume. We also have varying degrees of discretion when it comes to controlling the different elements within our structural costs. For example, depreciation and amortization expense largely is associated with prior capital spending decisions. On the other hand, while labor costs do not vary directly with production volume, manufacturing labor costs may be impacted by changes in volume, for example when we increase overtime, add a production shift, or add personnel to support volume increases. Other structural costs, such as advertising or engineering costs, do not necessarily have a directly proportionate relationship to production volume. Our structural costs generally are within our discretion, although to varying degrees, and can be adjusted over time in response to external factors.

We consider certain structural costs to be a direct investment in future growth and revenue. For example, structural costs are necessary to grow our business and improve profitability, invest in new products and technologies, respond to increasing industry sales volume, and grow our market share.

What the filing does not tell is is how much labor accounts for of COGS (cost of goods sold) / operating income versus other expenses (you won't find labor broken out on the Income Statement (page 110). Ford posted an Operating income of 6.2B and took huge losses on their investments (7.5B - page 124) which contributes to the net income loss for Ford for 2022.
 
LT75 said:
That’s what I said in another post. My wife got a 3.5% increase at a hospital She works at in Chicago. Then they let them know insurance is going up 6%. Basically they are losing 2.5% next year.

I read an article yesterday about the UPS worker. He was basically saying how amazed he was making $15 an hour and then the next month making $160,000 a year.
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That’s health care in the Midwest. That is why I left Detroit 11 years ago and then ultimately went into travel in my specialty of interventional cardiology as a nurse. My move isn’t unique - I just got ahead of the trend that followed during COVID. We’re (my wife is a nurse as well) now settled in northern Cali where nurses are paid what they should be with incredible benefits compared to back in the Midwest because - unions. And the hospital is raking in profits. I definitely see the parallel here with what the UAW is doing. 3.5% is a slap in the face. What’s the Chief Nursing Officer of that Chicago hospital making and what are their bonuses that don’t stop? It’s ludicrous.
 
I'm glad some of you guys popped in here to explain. Its difficult for people to grasp just how many expenses you have until you're in business. I wish net profit was the same as gross profit. I'd be as rich as employees like to think I am.
 
Stainless03 said:
I'm glad some of you guys popped in here to explain. Its difficult for people to grasp just how many expenses you have until you're in business. I wish net profit was the same as gross profit. I'd be as rich as employees like to think I am.
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Certainly. @DTX2023Tremor mentions many of the individual pieces in his description but one area that is most obvious to the consumer is the expense a company like Ford has to spend funding all new or mid-cycle programs. It's probably on the order of 10-15 billion/yr (average) . That extra torque in the 6.7 doesn't come for free ;)
 
any chance they would take builds from KTP to Ohio ? I’m guessing it’s not set up for that but idk ?
 
Mootray said:
any chance they would take builds from KTP to Ohio ? I’m guessing it’s not set up for that but idk ?
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The Ohio volume is much smaller. And they don’t have the frames we need for pickups at that plant. But it would take less time than another plant to convert since the cabs and interiors and engines are the same.
The UAW workers at Ohio probably would resist when the goal is to disrupt the company.
 
The KTP thread is rather useless. I'm not seeing a UAW response to Ford's middle finger today. Anyone see anything?
 
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