Why a 5th wheel? Why not a Travel Trailer

[TimmyTheKid17]

Here’s a question: When y’all are looking at 5’ers (never owned one) do you determine anticipated pin weight by what they state, or do you do the math and take ~20% of the GVWR that is listed? The image below is a good example as to why I ask. That listed hitch weight is ~18.5% of the UVW. I always believed 5’ers to be roughly 20% of total weight on the pin, so if you add another 1-2k pounds loaded, that listed pin weight is only ~15%.

I’m getting a 250 (maybe should have gone 350 lol) and so those ~500 pounds could be the difference in something like this working or not...

 

[6.7_Antimatter_LUST]

One of the best Travel Trailer style toy haulers is the ATC Brand. No wood in construction, very heavy duty suspension, 7'6" ceiling height, large holding tanks, truck tires and torsion suspension standard, dry weights are lighter than the average trailer of equal size. 20' -29' Travel Trailer lengths. Oh, and it's the brand Ford chose for their adds when the Tremor was first advertised. https://aluminumtoyhauler.com/model/game-changer-pro-series/2816/ View attachment 20089 View attachment 20083View attachment 20084View attachment 20085View attachment 20086View attachment 20087View attachment 20088

I love the quality and design of the ATC Toy Haulers. The new 2816 Game Changer Model would be perfect. The only problem is the wife wants Airstream fancy interior versus functional quality. But I cant complain in the end, I got my Tremor so she can have final say if we get a camper

 

[jdavenp3]

We are teachers and are planning on taking our summer months off to travel across the US for various periods of time. We eliminated the travel trailer just due to wanting it to feel more like a residential style home with larger ceilings, more storage for long trips, and the fact that I feel 5ers just inherently are more stable to pull.

We narrowed it down to 2 options; a smaller 5er that just focused on maneuverability within "off-road" sites and a lot of solar added or a toy hauler that we can get a SxS or golf cart to cruise around in more beach/chill areas.

Keystone Montana 3121RL or Grand Design Momentum 351m.

At this point we are going with the 351m. It will be testing the payload depending on how I arrange luggage and toys in the rear but its just me and the wife and our French Bulldog traveling. I'll be adding the Fox ATS 2.0 Steering Stabilizer, air bags, and I am debating on a rear sway bar.

Truck is F350 Platinum 6.7 Antimatter. Supposed to Arrive in 10 days.

 

[soulezoo]

Also you generally need a bigger (aka dually) tow vehicle for a 5th wheel, unless it's a pretty small one, because of the payload.

Not necessarily a true statement. What you should have said is with the biggest 5th wheels, you'll need a dually. A F350 Tremor will tow 80-90% of the 5th wheels out there. I have a 36' Montana and got an F250, which incidentally has the same GCVW as my 3500 Ram. Pin weight, fully loaded trailer with all the wife's crap in the bedroom is right at 2k. Less stuff, less pin weight.

I think each person has to weigh their own needs/wants. For some, the TT makes the most sense, for others the 5th wheel. The right/wrong answer depends entirely on your usage.

Fifth wheels are generally heavier (sometimes significantly so) than TT counterparts. However, total towing length will be shorter for same size trailer. 5er's tow much better and more securely. Lot more room and storage and creature comforts. TT gives you your bed back and you can go many more places than a 5er. A 5er is much quicker to set up, especially with the hydraulic levelers. A 5er tends to be easier to take down and is easier to hitch up.

Again, mission drives the gear.

 

[soulezoo]

We are teachers and are planning on taking our summer months off to travel across the US for various periods of time. We eliminated the travel trailer just due to wanting it to feel more like a residential style home with larger ceilings, more storage for long trips, and the fact that I feel 5ers just inherently are more stable to pull.

We narrowed it down to 2 options; a smaller 5er that just focused on maneuverability within "off-road" sites and a lot of solar added or a toy hauler that we can get a SxS or golf cart to cruise around in more beach/chill areas.

Keystone Montana 3121RL or Grand Design Momentum 351m.

At this point we are going with the 351m. It will be testing the payload depending on how I arrange luggage and toys in the rear but its just me and the wife and our French Bulldog traveling. I'll be adding the Fox ATS 2.0 Steering Stabilizer, air bags, and I am debating on a rear sway bar.

Truck is F350 Platinum 6.7 Antimatter. Supposed to Arrive in 10 days.

You are going to enjoy that combo. Have fun!!

 

[soulezoo]

Here’s a question: When y’all are looking at 5’ers (never owned one) do you determine anticipated pin weight by what they state, or do you do the math and take ~20% of the GVWR that is listed? The image below is a good example as to why I ask. That listed hitch weight is ~18.5% of the UVW. I always believed 5’ers to be roughly 20% of total weight on the pin, so if you add another 1-2k pounds loaded, that listed pin weight is only ~15%.

I’m getting a 250 (maybe should have gone 350 lol) and so those ~500 pounds could be the difference in something like this working or not...

I have always went with mfg's stated pin weight and added from there. Each item you put in the bedroom or the underfloor storage is going to be more directly on that pin weight rather than a percentage. Weight added say to the kitchen/living area or water tanks will be a percentage. In the end, I always go to the weight station. It'll tell you exactly where you are or where you need to adjust. I went enough times that I inherently knew where I was and stopped going over time. I always had room to spare even when I loaded as much as possible. (Full water tanks, full fuel tank, all our stuff in the trailer, two full ice chests in the bed, we just ate a big dinner and etc.

I have a 36' Montana using a Ram 3500 with 9900 GCVW rating.

So specifically to the question of your formula, it's not an exact science. If you put 500 lbs in your closet, you're going to putting nearly 500 lbs more on that pin. If you put the 500 lbs in the living room in the back, it's not putting much at all on the pin if any at all. (remember that the axles are your fulcrum). Very evenly distributed 1.5k and then your formula has some merit, but is still a variable.

 

[Jspeers89]

My payload of 2717 totally counts out most 5ers. Even atcs unless there stated weights are wrong.

 

[TimmyTheKid17]

I have always went with mfg's stated pin weight and added from there. Each item you put in the bedroom or the underfloor storage is going to be more directly on that pin weight rather than a percentage. Weight added say to the kitchen/living area or water tanks will be a percentage. In the end, I always go to the weight station. It'll tell you exactly where you are or where you need to adjust. I went enough times that I inherently knew where I was and stopped going over time. I always had room to spare even when I loaded as much as possible. (Full water tanks, full fuel tank, all our stuff in the trailer, two full ice chests in the bed, we just ate a big dinner and etc.

I have a 36' Montana using a Ram 3500 with 9900 GCVW rating.

So specifically to the question of your formula, it's not an exact science. If you put 500 lbs in your closet, you're going to putting nearly 500 lbs more on that pin. If you put the 500 lbs in the living room in the back, it's not putting much at all on the pin if any at all. (remember that the axles are your fulcrum). Very evenly distributed 1.5k and then your formula has some merit, but is still a variable.

Thanks for the info, very helpful. So let me ask you, what is your philosophy on how you determine whether or not a 5’er will work with your truck? Buying one and then going to the scales to determine I’ll be exceeding payload no matter how I load it doesn’t seem efficient...Is there a general buffer you add to the pin weight that gives you some guardrails when shopping around?

 

[soulezoo]

I should have added that the biggest consideration is going to keep in mind the load rating on your tires and staying within those limits. And even "E" load range tires vary greatly in their actual load capacity.

 

[WildWest]

Here’s a question: When y’all are looking at 5’ers (never owned one) do you determine anticipated pin weight by what they state, or do you do the math and take ~20% of the GVWR that is listed? The image below is a good example as to why I ask. That listed hitch weight is ~18.5% of the UVW. I always believed 5’ers to be roughly 20% of total weight on the pin, so if you add another 1-2k pounds loaded, that listed pin weight is only ~15%.

I’m getting a 250 (maybe should have gone 350 lol) and so those ~500 pounds could be the difference in something like this working or not...

My 5er was advertised as 2180lbs pin weight, but on delivery it was actually 2400lbs!. When you are totally loaded down in truck and trailer, it's a good idea to take a trip to the cat scales. Weigh you truck with full gas, passengers, and what ever else you put in the bed of the truck. After you get your loaded truck weight, then hitch up and weigh the loaded truck and loaded trailer together.

 

[TimmyTheKid17]

My 5er was advertised as 2180lbs pin weight, but on delivery it was actually 2400lbs!. When you are totally loaded down in truck and trailer, it's a good idea to take a trip to the cat scales. Weigh you truck with full gas, passengers, and what ever else you put in the bed of the truck. After you get your loaded truck weight, then hitch up and weigh the loaded truck and loaded trailer together.

I hear you Wildwest, but my point is if I take the advertised pin weight as gospel and make the purchase, load it down, and weigh it and I’m quite a bit over, its too late. Cant tell my son, “sorry buddy, daddy effed up and bought too big a 5’er so you cant come camping with us” lol. Not trying to be a dink, honest. guess I’m just wondering what cushion I should factor in when looking into 5’ers and their pin weight so I can avoid the above example.

 

[jdavenp3]

You are going to enjoy that combo. Have fun!!

I lied, my brother called and my truck came in today. 12 days early. Pumped up.

 

[soulezoo]

Thanks for the info, very helpful. So let me ask you, what is your philosophy on how you determine whether or not a 5’er will work with your truck? Buying one and then going to the scales to determine I’ll be exceeding payload no matter how I load it doesn’t seem efficient...Is there a general buffer you add to the pin weight that gives you some guardrails when shopping around?

I allowed 1200 lbs over the pin weight. I saw the post above where his was way off. I can't speak to that, but mine was actually 100lbs less than stated.

 

[TimmyTheKid17]

I allowed 1200 lbs over the pin weight. I saw the post above where his was way off. I can't speak to that, but mine was actually 100lbs less than stated.

Most trips I’m traveling with myself, wife, son, 65 pound pooch, step daughter, and one of her friends. On a given day that is ~700 pounds in passengers. Assuming a payload of ~2,600 lbs on my Tremor (guessing based on other posts) I’m cutting it close on a 5’er with a listed pin weight of ~1,600 lbs if you consider the added cargo outside of passengers. Loaded near the front I’m definetely over. Spread out, I’m still cutting it veryyy close. And that is one of the smaller grand design 5’ers. I know, I know, I’m babbling...but I guess I’m just saying it seems like most 5’ers are out of the picture for me unless I’m totally missing something...

 

[cookiemonster]

Most trips I’m traveling with myself, wife, son, 65 pound pooch, step daughter, and one of her friends. On a given day that is ~700 pounds in passengers. Assuming a payload of ~2,600 lbs on my Tremor (guessing based on other posts) I’m cutting it close on a 5’er with a listed pin weight of ~1,600 lbs if you consider the added cargo outside of passengers. Loaded near the front I’m definetely over. Spread out, I’m still cutting it veryyy close. And that is one of the smaller grand design 5’ers. I know, I know, I’m babbling...but I guess I’m just saying it seems like most 5’ers are out of the picture for me unless I’m totally missing something...

You got it right. If you care about respecting your legal GVWR, the F250 is a very niche truck where you have a ton of power, heavy duty parts across the board, a big OOMPH over the F150 line, but you also quickly hit its legal limits.

 

[TimmyTheKid17]

You got it right. If you care about respecting your legal GVWR, the F250 is a very niche truck where you have a ton of power, heavy duty parts across the board, a big OOMPH over the F150 line, but you also quickly hit its legal limits.

Yup. Fortunately there are still some great TT’s that would be a big upgrade for me but wont put me too close to GVWR given theyre closer to 10% on the hitch vs. the 20% of a 5’er.

 

[soulezoo]

Most trips I’m traveling with myself, wife, son, 65 pound pooch, step daughter, and one of her friends. On a given day that is ~700 pounds in passengers. Assuming a payload of ~2,600 lbs on my Tremor (guessing based on other posts) I’m cutting it close on a 5’er with a listed pin weight of ~1,600 lbs if you consider the added cargo outside of passengers. Loaded near the front I’m definetely over. Spread out, I’m still cutting it veryyy close. And that is one of the smaller grand design 5’ers. I know, I know, I’m babbling...but I guess I’m just saying it seems like most 5’ers are out of the picture for me unless I’m totally missing something...

You are correct in the math. Again, mission drives the gear. A f350 would be a better match for you I think.
For me, it's just wife and me and 12 lb pooch. My pin weight fully loaded (with full water) is right at 2000lb. I have another 450 lbs to play with. (2823 payload) Again, this is a 36' Montana.

 

[LoneStar Tremor]

Most trips I’m traveling with myself, wife, son, 65 pound pooch, step daughter, and one of her friends. On a given day that is ~700 pounds in passengers. Assuming a payload of ~2,600 lbs on my Tremor (guessing based on other posts) I’m cutting it close on a 5’er with a listed pin weight of ~1,600 lbs if you consider the added cargo outside of passengers. Loaded near the front I’m definetely over. Spread out, I’m still cutting it veryyy close. And that is one of the smaller grand design 5’ers. I know, I know, I’m babbling...but I guess I’m just saying it seems like most 5’ers are out of the picture for me unless I’m totally missing something...

Not to add more too it, but you’ve also got to think about the weight of the hitch itself. Most hitches weigh in well over 100 lbs with some sliders getting close to 300 lbs. I went with the andersen hitch because of this. It’s all aluminum and weighs 35 lbs, but to be able to use it I still had to add the factory prep package that didn’t come on my truck and that’s about another 100lbs as well.

I will say though that at least with our momentum 350g grand design was right on between the actual pin weight and what they listed in their brochure. If you’re really worried about pin weight their 150 series is still really nice but all the pin weights on those trailers are under 1500lbs. Hope that helps.

 

[Dark Horse Fred]

Went the fifth wheel route for the ceiling height, better stability while towing and perceived sturdier construction. Also felt like the floor plans were generally better in the fifth wheels. Not sure if they are actually any sturdier, but that was at least my thought process on it. The ceiling height though is was really did it for us. The wife and I walked through probably 20 tt’s and our sales person showed us one of the “half ton towable” fivers and we were sold on switching to a fifth wheel. Sold our 2020 F150 the next month and brought home an F350 tremor.

We would have gone 5th with less length going down the road, but the wife didn't want to step up into the bedroom.

 

[Jrod250]

We would have gone 5th with less length going down the road, but the wife didn't want to step up into the bedroom.

Did you tell her that she can sleep on the couch? Lol