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Transfer Flow 58 gallon replacement tanks are finally being sold and installed!!!!
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I don't see it that way.
TF sold a tank that was to be be fully compatible with my existing hardware, and mine isn't.
I'm not asking they support Forscan, I've simply provided them the configuration so they can verify it is set correctly.
Ford, as in a dealership, has nothing to do with an aftermarket tank install and wouldn't have a point of reference from which to troubleshoot.
TF does because they've tested against the hardware.
The basic consideration is that I installed a 58 gallon tank, I want to see a 58 gallon tank on my panel.
I think it is awesome that TransferFlow responded to our community's need by developing the tank and going through the effort to get it CARB approved. If I recall, it was members of this forum who lobbied TransferFlow to make the 58 gallon tank.
I recently had the TransferFlow tank installed and it has been a great mod. I've learned that when my DTE reads zero that I have consumed 50 gallons of gas and have 8 in reserve. I've filled-up 4 times since getting the tank installed and this has been consistent with each fill-up. Resetting my trip meter and/or fuel economy gauge has allowed me to estimate, with a fair amount of accuracy, how far I can go before reaching the 8 gallon reserve and that has been pretty accurate when I multiply the average MPG by 50.
I think we can agree that TransferFlow isn't a software company and is not responsible for Forscan software updates or for modifying the OEM software. With that in mind, how would they get it so that your truck so that it recognizes the tank volume as being 58 gallons without Ford or Forscan making such an update possible? Has Titan developed a solution for this issue with their tank?
I don't mean these questions to be confrontational, just confused as to what is expected from them. Could TransferFlow take the approach Whipple has done and work with Ford or Forscan? Sure, but then 23+ trucks would not have a tank available to them for some time (if ever) as it wouldn't behoove TransferFlow to have modified their design to fit the 23+ trucks until such time that the software could be updated. Personally, I prefer having the tank as an option now and deal with the quirks than have to wait or not have the option available at all.
This is a problem we're going to run into that needs to be sidestepped with a quickness... What you're illustrating is your personal narrative reflecting your personal emotive investment and not the actual stated position of the company.
According to Transferflow, these tanks were designed to function with OEM equipment and reflect the exact fuel level in the tank.
This is not about gratitude.
This is not about good enough.
This is about a product being designed to work in a specific way and reporting on a problem, now independently verified by yourself, that according to Transferflow SHOULD NOT EXIST.
There are a couple ways to go about identifying the root issue; the most actionable is that we work with the installers to verify every aspect of the installation, we communicate with each other in a way that absolutely rejects any personal need to defend a corporation and instead seeks a data-driven approach to obtaining insight, we share our data with TF and ask them to direct any efforts that our cooperation might expose.
Again, and explicitly - these tanks are meant to report 58 gallons to the truck.
They are not meant to report 49 gallons with an invisible eight to nine gallon reserve.
Call up TF and ask their support guy if you need to hear it for yourself... His name is John.
800-442-0056, option 2 then option 2.
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It's your world you can see how you want, it's still America. When I bought my tank, it was the 2nd batch produced, late Dec of '21 IIRC. It was made clear to me at the time of purchase by TF sales rep they didn't support the MTE programming but my fuel guage would read correct and I should refer to estimate sheet that was in the packing materials. To get the programming completed I had to pay extra to the installer, it was there 1st install of that tank type so it took them a couple trys to get it to take.
Does your fuel guage work correctly?
That is debatable, isn't it?
As for programming, there are only two variables I am aware of that determine the reporting; first the capacity, and second the source. If there are additional modifications necessary, I have not encountered them.
There is no apparent issue with the fuel gauge and the ongoing discussion with the manufacturer is not about support for programming.
Now that I have verified the issue exists in at least one other installation, I've become more interested in gathering data regarding the installation variables and driving toward a resolution.
There could be something as direct as a hardware revision in the fuel sender or sensor that accounts for the discrepancy but until the exploration has been pressed further - we simply won't know.
This tank is designed to work with OEM hardware and report the maximum capacity of 58 gallons to the vehicle; if anyone's personal experience is that the tank only reports 49-50 gallons, it might be useful to post here...
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- Jun 25, 2021
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I'm speculating a bit here... With the larger tank and no other changes to the DTE algorithm including some provision for a reserve, I would think the reserve would become inaccurate, and thus, possibly larger.
The truck only knows what it's told. There is no reporting function of fuel capacity except thru the IPC. That being said, it does know relative tank status - full, empty, etc via the pickup sender.
There are several IPC settings that govern this, shown in this post:
Without knowing the how the pickup behaves relative to the shape of the new tank as the volume decreases an accurate reserve won't be able to be determined.
In other words, 6 gal in a 34 gal tank is just a explicit point on the pickup. The truck doesn't know any different other than it has been told the max is 34 and the pickup tells it when the tank is at capacity. Through testing and a subsequent transfer function a "0" point on the DTE can be determined, representing 6 gals left. It may not be as simple as dividing 6/34 since the tank is not a perfect, consistent shape from top to bottom.
If no one has done this testing on the 58 gal tank and pickup to understand how it compares to the stock system the existing transfer function may be essentially miscalculating the reserve point.
I wonder if the reserve can be set to "0"?? That would be a good test point to help understand what is going on...
When I did the forscan changes for my new tank 2 years ago, there was a third variable, "DTE Empty Value". Basically how may gallons of fuel are remaining in the tank when the DTE reads zero. The default for my truck was 6 gallons, I changed to to 5, just because I could. It was in IPC, Plain English. This might be where your 10 gallons are hiding.
Do you remember where this entry was located?
Edit: missed the last sentence where you explicitly said where it was listed.
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- Jun 25, 2021
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See my post above... I referenced the location from another member.
Worth looking into.
Sorry again for my continued confusion... Are we over thinking the issue a bit? If I understand correctly, there's a value in the system that tells the computer the volume of the tank. This is likely what calculates the DTE. The fuel gauge is mechanical so that would seem to be why the gauge reads correctly and adjusting the reserve in the computer would increase accuracy of the gauge as the computer is likely adjusting the gauge to factor out the reserve amount so it reads empty once it reaches this threshold.
If the above is true, the issue it would seem is a matter of programming the size of the new tank into the computer, a possible value which has not been added in by Ford and not possible to add via Forscan.
Is the above correct or am I misunderstanding? If correct, what other testing or troubleshooting would need to be done?
That said, this is a known issue. While I do appreciate wanting the data on the dash to be correct (something I would prefer myself), why buy something that doesn't fully meet your requirements? Given the cost, was research on the product not done beforehand?
From the FAQ page:
Will a high-capacity replacement tank affect my truck’s stock fuel gauge and trip computer?
Your stock fuel gauge will read accurately when our high-capacity replacement tank is installed on your vehicle. When your gauge reads half full, you have approximately half a tank of fuel. Most functions on your truck’s trip computer should work properly, except for the miles-to-empty feature. This feature will continue to read fuel levels as though you still have the stock tank installed.
Unsure how TransferFlow has misrepresented their product or functionality given they have explicitly addressed this in their FAQs
If the above is true, the issue it would seem is a matter of programming the size of the new tank into the computer, a possible value which has not been added in by Ford and not possible to add via Forscan.
Is the above correct or am I misunderstanding? If correct, what other testing or troubleshooting would need to be done?
That said, this is a known issue. While I do appreciate wanting the data on the dash to be correct (something I would prefer myself), why buy something that doesn't fully meet your requirements? Given the cost, was research on the product not done beforehand?
From the FAQ page:
Will a high-capacity replacement tank affect my truck’s stock fuel gauge and trip computer?
Your stock fuel gauge will read accurately when our high-capacity replacement tank is installed on your vehicle. When your gauge reads half full, you have approximately half a tank of fuel. Most functions on your truck’s trip computer should work properly, except for the miles-to-empty feature. This feature will continue to read fuel levels as though you still have the stock tank installed.
Unsure how TransferFlow has misrepresented their product or functionality given they have explicitly addressed this in their FAQs
There was no research to be done, the tank didn't exist.
There was no FAQ page when the interest list went up and the survey was filled out.
When I got the email, I personally asked a question about functional compatibility over the phone when I placed the order and was told that by default the reading would be off but that it was correctable - I think it may have even been discussed in the original thread.
I don't think there is confusion between us, I think there is a difference in perspective.
You seem fixated on ideas of gratitude, blame, or liability whereas I am not, I am simply trying to determine how to correct the issue - because I believe it can be.
I intend to alter the DTE value and test on my next fill and I'm curious what a stock tank will fill to, in gallons, from a '0 miles to empty' condition. This thread would indicate the value would be 29, but I'd like to verify IRL experience.
I'll admit, because I've been away from this forum for a long while now, I'd assumed my experience with the capacity was an aberration - If everyone is getting around 49 gallons to full, I'd be interested in learning that as well.
At the root of the issue is that I'm not looking for software from them, simply their data and their expectations for the performance of the tank when properly configured.
At this time it seems that there is a discrepancy between their expectation for the tank with the modified settings and the actual performance I've experienced so they are looking into it and so am I
I assume that if the determination is made that the error is purely with my configuration, that they will inform me of that, but until then, I'm going to keep working the problem.
This forum used to be about as good as it gets for that sort of thing, it's why I still pay to support it; it's been an incredible resource.
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Thank you for the explanation and clarification. I do hope a solution is found as it would be nice to have everything working as desired / expected.
Judging from your handle I think you fellas are talking about different issues. I read here where the '23 can't be programmed yet, IIRC Jericho"s truck is older like mine and can be programmed.
Yeah, that would be rough not being able modify the truck like that.
I'm perfectly happy in the '21, I've got no desire to step into anything newer.
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Yeah, that occurred to me when @Jericho mentioned he hadn't been active in a while and there was no description or FAQ on the website when he purchased the product. That certainly adds clarity for me as to his concerns versus me who had different expectations when buying the tank. Completely makes sense now why he would expect TF to work to find a solution.
I thought that the '20 - '22 model years could have the tank size set in Forscan (but since I have a '23 can't say for certain). Hopefully a solution is found and that it leads to one for the '23+ model years.
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It would be nice if the 23s included code for self learning. It wouldn't be hard to compare miles driven vs. fuel tank level to estimate DTE without having the tank capacity in the IPC. I have no direct knowledge of this, just going off your statement that the 23+ do not have that field available in Forscan (if I understood you correctly).
I'm a novice with Forscan having only used it a couple of times to make changes when I got my truck so don't know the root issue. @ZooDad has listed at the top of the 2023+ Forscan post that DTE changes are not working. From other threads I was left with the impression that this was being worked on, but no estimate of when it would be resolved.
I, like others put close to 50 gallons in when the DTE reads 0 on my 22 F350. There are so many variables that go into this that each individuals experience may be somewhat different. If you tow for several hundred miles and then run empty, it takes ~100+ miles for the DTE to correct and reflect the correct DTE mileage; at least that's how mine works. The DTE is just a guestimate, even stock. A larger tank leads to more variation in that guestimate.
Based on observations only, it would appear that Ford has a % built into its DTE calculator for reserve based on tank size and fuel consumption rate. My tank size was updated at the Dealer to 58 gallons, but instead of being 5 - 6 gallons for stock tank as others have reported, it is now 8 - 9 gallons and the algorithm to calculate remaining miles is very conservative depending on habits. My 2013 6.7 50 gallon titan and 2017 6.7 50 gallon titan all had minor DTE issues, even though it was updated in the system by the dealer and for the most part was close, but always a little off at points. To me, that's just the nature of the beast with some of these aftermarket large tanks. Ford doesn't calibrate their algorithms to account for these size modifications in DTE but the mod's are close enough that it's manageable without running out.
Honestly, Transfer flow sold me 58 gallon tank, my tank holds 58 gallons and so far no issues; my tank was installed New with 150 miles on the truck (mostly from Ford). I reset my trip every fill up and am always within 1 gallon of fill-up to my calculated use. Each one of my fill ups is logged and hand calculated. If the entire 58 gallons is needed, I am comfortable going past the DTE 0 miles to E knowing that based on my current consumption, there are approx "X" miles before the situation is dire.
FWIW...with close to 29k miles of driving, the only time that over 50 gallons was pumped was the initial fill. With a stock tank, it would have required approximately 30 additional fueling events for the same amount of fuel if you account for all of the fill-ups over 30 gallons. The tank so far, has saved me at least ~30 stops at the fuel station even though the entire capacity is never really used. To me, this is where the real value is; especially the range extension when towing heavy and getting 7-8mpg.
Based on observations only, it would appear that Ford has a % built into its DTE calculator for reserve based on tank size and fuel consumption rate. My tank size was updated at the Dealer to 58 gallons, but instead of being 5 - 6 gallons for stock tank as others have reported, it is now 8 - 9 gallons and the algorithm to calculate remaining miles is very conservative depending on habits. My 2013 6.7 50 gallon titan and 2017 6.7 50 gallon titan all had minor DTE issues, even though it was updated in the system by the dealer and for the most part was close, but always a little off at points. To me, that's just the nature of the beast with some of these aftermarket large tanks. Ford doesn't calibrate their algorithms to account for these size modifications in DTE but the mod's are close enough that it's manageable without running out.
Honestly, Transfer flow sold me 58 gallon tank, my tank holds 58 gallons and so far no issues; my tank was installed New with 150 miles on the truck (mostly from Ford). I reset my trip every fill up and am always within 1 gallon of fill-up to my calculated use. Each one of my fill ups is logged and hand calculated. If the entire 58 gallons is needed, I am comfortable going past the DTE 0 miles to E knowing that based on my current consumption, there are approx "X" miles before the situation is dire.
FWIW...with close to 29k miles of driving, the only time that over 50 gallons was pumped was the initial fill. With a stock tank, it would have required approximately 30 additional fueling events for the same amount of fuel if you account for all of the fill-ups over 30 gallons. The tank so far, has saved me at least ~30 stops at the fuel station even though the entire capacity is never really used. To me, this is where the real value is; especially the range extension when towing heavy and getting 7-8mpg.
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