The TREMOR Towing Table

[LongBedTremor]

I think I’m following you. The 250/350 are mechanically identical, and the gas/diesel are both capable well beyond the capabilities of this platform, so it comes down entirely to ratings/legalities.

In which case, it seems clear the 250 is rated for working within CDL limits and the diesel/350 is rated for working at the platform limits.

In either case, the limits are much lower than they appear based on GCWR.

And in either case, if you’re towing an RV, rules and ratings become much more ambiguous. To the point that the choice almost doesn’t seem to matter.

All of that said, the Tremor has the most puzzling/convoluted ratings of any trim on the platform. So I’d say if you’re super worried about legally maximizing tow capacity, a Tremor probably isn’t the right choice.

the more I learn about all this stuff, I get a sense that the 26000# CDL limit is really the fly in the ointment. I was initially worked up about the payload number, but as @ccw has pointed out, being slightly over your payload sticker *might* increase your liability or get you in trouble with the law but we don't see it happening. What we do see is people getting dinged for being over the 26000# number. So, if you are a "hard no" on getting a CDL or equivalent, then as you approach a 16000# 5er or gooseneck you'll be forced to choose between going over on payload or going over the 26000# number. In this scenario, it seems to make most sense to de-rate a 350 or increase the capability of a 250 and go over slightly on payload. Over 16000 on a trailer you're looking at CDL any way you slice it, other than maybe conventional.

It is interesting when you compare tow ratings against engine options and SRW/DRW. The 6.2 tops out at about 15Klbs, the 7.3 tops out at about 20klbs, and the 6.7 tops out at 37klbs. However, the SRW tops out at about 20klbs. Purely from a rating point of view, the 7.3 is the best match for SRWs. A wise man once said "If I were to want/need the diesel, then I'd go straight to the 450..." ( https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/help-w-engine-choice-the-dead-horse-thread.7172/post-147931 )

 

[Tx-Tremor6.7]

Just my 2 cents, but I see no reason for a 350 over a 250 Tremor in your case (or really most cases). It has been discussed quite extensively, but the trucks are virtually identical. One thing that doesn't get much attention in these discussions is the 3" receiver vs 2.5" (I'm not sure about Tremors, but I am fairly certain that non Tremor 250s get the 2.5 and 350s get the 3), I could see the 3" causing headaches. Other than that, for non-Tremors there may be some differences in axles, gear ratio options, badging, sticker ratings and most importantly the rear suspension (the rear suspension for the Tremor is identical 250 or 350). Anyway, from a capability point of view, the Tremor 250 and 350 are identical. Unless you need the sticker to stay legal if you are hauling/towing heavy stuff (especially as a business) then you'll want the 350 (and probably a CDL). The problem is that you might inadvertently turn a perfectly legal rig into an illegal one by getting the 350 and it's associated higher ratings. This is the reason that I went with a 250 (although mine is a non-tremor), I won't have to worry about hitting the magical 26000# limit but the truck will be every bit as capable as the 350 with some minor suspension improvements. Note - when I reference "capability" I mean how the truck will actually perform, not what it's rating. @soop and @ccw please feel free to pick this apart.

I went with the F250 Tremor for many of the reasons stated previously and to save $1000 to put towards my modifications.

As others have mentioned, the 3" receiver comes with the diesel Tremor, while the 2.5" comes with the gasser and has nothing to do with the F250 / F 350 badges. I have a 3" shank B&W Tow and Stow for normal towing and a 2.5" shank Blue Ox WDH with the 2.5" to 3" adapter Ford provided when I am towing my 9500 lb TT. The 3" receiver setup is pretty straight forward, but at 22,000 lbs max trailer weight, it is rated much higher than the 15,000 lb towing capacity of the Tremor.

On your last point, your non-Tremor F250 is indeed different from a non-Tremor F350. It has different leaf springs and axles, so you will need to do more than minor suspension work to get it to match the capabilities of the F350.

 

[LongBedTremor]

On your last point, your non-Tremor F250 is indeed different from a non-Tremor F350. It has different leaf springs and axles, so you will need to do more than minor suspension work to get it to match the capabilities of the F350.

I have a high degree of certainty that mine is coming with a Dana M275 (4.30 gears), I'll have to see when it gets to the dealer. Even so, there are Diesel 350s with the Sterling 10.5, so if it is a Dana or Sterling I'm not worried about that. Agreed on the springs, I guess 'minor' is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[DIG]

@soop @ccw I’m wondering what is the reason for the 11,400 derate. This is my trucks GVWR. What does the 100lbs difference do for me?

 

[Vee8Thunder]

@soop @ccw I’m wondering what is the reason for the 11,400 derate. This is my trucks GVWR. What does the 100lbs difference do for me?

In some states 11500 GVWR is a breakpoint where registration fees are much higher and, in some cases, where additional insurance requirements come into play. California is one such state..no idea about Colorado.

More info/conversation on the topic here:

Sending Truck Back to Dealer? Truck Order Gone Wrong - F350 11400 GVWR Package

UPDATE 4/7: Truck has been returned to the dealer. Does that make me the shortest duration tremor owner in the club? 7 Days. I'm sick to my stomach, and it was very hard to do with a truck I waited since December 6th for and surprised my wife with...but I feel like it was the right call. CA...

www.fordtremor.com

"Bottom line is 11,500 in CA presents many complications including higher fees, stopping at weight scales and DVIR."

 

[ccw]

According to BulletProof it looks like 350 gassers get a 3", I dunno, I didn't even know a 3" was a thing until recently...

"The Ford Motor Company changes the receiver tube size on its F-250 Diesel and F-350 and up trucks to 3”

New Ford Receiver Size

2017. A year that will go down in history. A total solar eclipse shifted across the U.S. for the first time since 1918. The most damaging natural disaster in America’s history, Hurricane Harvey, strikes Houston, causing over $125 billion in damages. The Ford Motor Company changes the receiver...

www.bulletproofhitches.com

As someone with a 22MY 350 gasser, I can confirm it has a 2.5” receiver, not a 3”. The 3” comes with the diesel, regardless of 250 or 350.

No idea what Bulletproof was talking about. Perhaps a mistake in publishing since it seems like that article was written at time of announcement and not after trucks were received?

 

[LongBedTremor]

As someone with a 22MY 350 gasser, I can confirm it has a 2.5” receiver, not a 3”. The 3” comes with the diesel, regardless of 250 or 350.

No idea what Bulletproof was talking about. Perhaps a mistake in publishing since it seems like that article was written at time of announcement and not after trucks were received?

I briefly looked at the forums and there are reports of non-Tremor '17+ 250 gassers with 3" and 350 diesels with 2.5". So... Are they manufacturing errors, false reports or maybe it is more than just the diesel/gas difference. Regardless, the vast majority of reports align with the diesel/gas rule, but I'm not convinced it's absolute. Right now I'm still recovering from my journey down the axle rabbit hole, not ready for another adventure....

 

[ccw]

I briefly looked at the forums and there are reports of non-Tremor '17+ 250 gassers with 3" and 350 diesels with 2.5". So... Are they manufacturing errors, false reports or maybe it is more than just the diesel/gas difference. Regardless, the vast majority of reports align with the diesel/gas rule, but I'm not convinced it's absolute. Right now I'm still recovering from my journey down the axle rabbit hole, not ready for another adventure....

Interesting. Ok, maybe it is package related and it's only in the case of the Tremor that the difference is based solely on engine choice.

 

[2020Tremor]

I briefly looked at the forums and there are reports of non-Tremor '17+ 250 gassers with 3" and 350 diesels with 2.5". So... Are they manufacturing errors, false reports or maybe it is more than just the diesel/gas difference. Regardless, the vast majority of reports align with the diesel/gas rule, but I'm not convinced it's absolute. Right now I'm still recovering from my journey down the axle rabbit hole, not ready for another adventure....

Hopefully this helps some, taken from 2022 towing guide. The 2.5” 7.3L and 3” 6.7L only holds up with the Tremor package not across the Superduty lineup.

 

[Modman]

From the order guide:

 

[Modman]

Since the Tremor pkg requires the upgraded Trailer Tow for the 6.7L it follows that we observe the gas/diesel distinction on a Tremor:

 

[OTG-Tremor-CG]

As someone with a 22MY 350 gasser, I can confirm it has a 2.5” receiver, not a 3”. The 3” comes with the diesel, regardless of 250 or 350.

No idea what Bulletproof was talking about. Perhaps a mistake in publishing since it seems like that article was written at time of announcement and not after trucks were received?

This is an EXCELLENT thread with great information regarding F250 / F350 SRW configurations and GVWR / GCWR with respect to towing and payload. Big ^High Five^ to Soop, CCW and others for posting the details.

The 2019 F250 and F350 6.2L gas trucks rolled off the assembly line with 3" receivers.....at least two trucks did for certain...F250 - Stone Gray and F350 - Magnetic. Maybe it is the 2019 Super Duties and possibly other model years (2017 - 2018???) is where Bulletproof Hitches is getting their information.

 

[oops]

Just noticed in the manual for the first time that Ford suggests the GCWR is reduced by 2% for every 1000’ in elevation above Sea Level.

So my 26000# GCWR at home would be reduced to 23000# in Tahoe.

More lawyer bait.

 

[2020Tremor]

View attachment 40207

Just noticed in the manual for the first time that Ford suggests the GCWR is reduced by 2% for every 1000’ in elevation above Sea Level.

So my 26000# GCWR at home would be reduced to 23000# in Tahoe.

More lawyer bait.

Now comes the caveat to match performance at sea level. Lawyers get a lot to work with there each way. I highly doubt DOT is going to recognize that for CDL purposes .

 

[Loshad]

A normally aspirated engine loses about 3%/1000'. At about 14-15,000' a normally aspirated engine does not have enough excess power to climb further. Surely Ford isn't saying the normally aspirated 7.3 is gunna keep up with the turbodiesel as they climb?

 

[oops]

A normally aspirated engine loses about 3%/1000'. At about 14-15,000' a normally aspirated engine does not have enough excess power to climb further. Surely Ford isn't saying the normally aspirated 7.3 is gunna keep up with the turbodiesel as they climb?

That's what the manual is suggesting, even though you're right that a naturally aspirated motor won't keep up with a forced induction motor at elevation.

That said, both of these motors have power so far in excess of the platform limits that I don't know why they bother with this caveat at all. There's no safety issue.

 

[oops]

Now comes the caveat to match performance at sea level. Lawyers get a lot to work with there each way. I highly doubt DOT is going to recognize that for CDL purposes .

Yeah, this is more of one of those “what might a prosecutor use against you if you have a mechanical failure and blast through an intersection with a trailer in tow” kind of things.

 

[ccw]

That's what the manual is suggesting, even though you're right that a naturally aspirated motor won't keep up with a forced induction motor at elevation.

That said, both of these motors have power so far in excess of the platform limits that I don't know why they bother with this caveat at all. There's no safety issue.

Only thing I can think of is it's required for J2807 certification? I don't know if it actually is, mind you, but that's my best guess.

 

[oops]

Only thing I can think of is it's required for J2807 certification? I don't know if it actually is, mind you, but that's my best guess.

Ah yeah, you're probably right.

 

[LongBedTremor]

a couple of key qualifiers from the manual "could have reduced performance" and "to match driving performance". Rating and performance are two different animals -- just like with the 250 vs 350 Tremor discussion, same performance but different rating. I don't know for sure, but I would bet that the rating standard includes considerations for altitude (just like it includes considerations for speed limits and road conditions). We all know that trucks are are more capable than their rating when towing at lower speeds in fair weather.