Winter traction devices aka tire chains

[knaffie]

I ran these tires on my 2015 F350 and will run them on my new truck as well. With an estimated 1500# of weight in the bed, the truck is nearly unstoppable. I can even stop in the middle of a snow-covered hill and start moving again, which was not possible with the other tires shown below. https://www.nokiantires.com/snow-winter-tires/nokian-hakkapeliitta-lt3/

If things get really bad, I'll put the chains on, but I sure hope I won't ever need them. These Cooper ATP (Discount Tire only all terrain that is similar to the Cooper AT3) were a huge disappointment in the snow and I was forced to buy the studded tires shown. Night and day difference in the snow.

 

[ccw]

I think you're overthinking it. Just get some chains (any chains) for the rear axle and keep them on board and hope you're never in conditions so bad you'll need to put them on. I think you're splitting hairs trying to decide between this one and that one based on how they will perform or ride, considering you're probably never going to even put them on anyway. I live in the mountains where we get a ton of snow and purposely go driving around in snow storms pulling people back on the road and have yet to ever put mine on. They are very heavy and it's a difficult and dirty job to put them on and take them off. I'd rather not put them on if I can help it.

I rarely see any four wheel drive vehicles with chains on except dedicated plow trucks, loaders, skid steers, and snowblowers. They are the ones that are out removing snow while everybody else is being told to stay off the roads until conditions improve. They need to be driving in the worse conditions every time it snows. Different application than you. Of the people who do put chains on a 4x4 truck, it's 99% only the rear axle. Make sure you have weight in the bed. It makes a HUGE difference!

The highway ride is pretty much irrelevant. You're not supposed to go over 25 MPH with them on (per the instructions that came with mine). If the conditions are so bad that you need chains on, you won't be going faster than 25, nor will anybody else on the road. You need to take them off as soon as the conditions improve anyway. Most mountain passes have a dedicated spot just to install and remove chains. They're miserable to drive with if they're touching the pavement.

Just for the sake of discussion, the law everywhere I've been through is you either need 4x4 and snow rated (M+S) tires OR chains on the drive axle. I've have not yet seen where you are required to have both. I'm not saying this is the case everywhere, but this has been my personal experience in the Sierra and Rockies. If you choose to carry chains in your truck, you may be doing it for your own reasons, not to satisfy an officer that won't let you over a pass. It's still a good idea to carry chains "just incase" if you drive in the snow a lot.

Even 100% stock, these trucks are so much more capable in the snow than most vehicles on the road. They already have a ton more ground clearance compared to just about anything else. Having good tires, 4x4, and weight in the bed will get you further than most vehicles that do have chains installed.

It's unbelievable how many cars I see with nearly bald and/or summer tires on their Subaru, Tesla, or other SUV or car that think can go anywhere in the snow just because its AWD. Anything not 4x4 / AWD is of course worse yet. It's not uncommon to see cars that came up to Tahoe for a vacation and be completely unable to move in the snow, even on flat ground. These are more the vehicles that the chain laws are aimed toward in my opinion. They'll be the ones stuck blocking the road when the hills get steeper and snow gets deeper.

For highway travel I 100% agree with everything you said. For the past 7 years I’ve been carrying a pair of cheap cable chains in my truck so I’m legal in the passes (the law in Washington in the passes is that when chains are required for 2WD vehicles, 4WD vehicles must carry chains). On a steep hill going up to a ski hill that had turned into sheet ice I drove around numerous vehicles that were stranded due to 2WD, poor tires, or both.

It’s the third use I case I listed out that has me going beefy and thinking harder about the details: search and rescue. In that case I could be on forest roads or unmaintained paved roads in winter, in which case we’re talking much worse ice, snow, and consequences should I slide. I still probably won’t use them very often, but like the winch they could easily pay for themselves multiple times over in just one use if they get me, or help me get someone else, out of a bind.

Going for 2 link isn’t just about ride quality. It means you have chains touching the ground twice as often, which means more traction. Question is whether the increased traction of 2 link outweighs the increased traction of square links. And I certainly won’t complain about a smoother ride, even if the speeds are slow.

You do make a good point about weight in the bed. Need to see what good options I have for that.

 

[Hopsferdays]

I

Those are are 4 link 7mm squares. Basically identical to what I plan to get. I’m also probably overthinking this because I grew up with a 2wd f250 with a long box no amount of weight would fix that thing I had to put on chains to get out of the school parking lot that had been packed into ice in college. @ccw if you need them in the ski area parking lot maybe it’s just that good of a day ya know lol. Lots of valid points about chained up all 4 wheels. I’ve put a lot of those 4link 7mms on we even had some in double width when I was on a search and rescue team for the dually trucks we used to tow the snow cats around. And talk about heavy… those square links with that many cams are a breeze to put on. Just keep a wood block in your truck to drive up on. I think one of our main points is in the northern tier when you hit chain law requirements and I’d rather stay on the “you have the right chains” side of the Washington staties. And yes can be used in mud.

 

[knaffie]

You do make a good point about weight in the bed. Need to see what good options I have for that.

I figured there would be something than the same sandbags I've been using for 25 years, but after everything I read, I ended up buying sandbags again. The bags themselves are cheap and the sand is free. There are some water bladder things that looked like they would work well, but they were too expensive. Just be aware that if you live somewhere that it stays below freezing for a while, they can eventually start sliding around in the bed. I don't have a problem where I live because it doesn't get or stay cold, but in the past I've made a simple frame out of 2x4s that straddles the wheelwells that keeps all the sandbags locked in place.

 

[TJ Carr]

Auto hubs shouldn't disengage at idle. They are activated via vacuum. As long as the truck is running and creating vacuum, the hubs will be locked (barring a vacuum leak or other failure in the system), so I don't know what Raspy is referring to exactly there? Perhaps they were faulty and therefore would only engage with the engine revved up, creating additional vacuum?

They may disengage if the truck is shut off, though, as it will cease to make vacuum. If there is force on them they may stay engaged, but it's not a guarantee.

The advantage of manual locking hubs is if the auto locking fails for any reason, or if you're going into a bad situation and want a guarantee the hubs won't fail on you, you can manually engage them.

Getting more speculative and less confident with my knowledge: I believe the auto hubs take a quarter tire rotation or so to lock in, so if you need the hubs locked in immediately, manually locking them will do that. This applies when switching from forward to reverse, so they'll briefly disengage in the process if not manually locked in.

FYI the fact Ford's have selectable hubs at all is a win, at least compared to Ram trucks (don't know for sure about GM). With Ram trucks their hubs are permanently engaged and it's the front diff that is engaged/disengaged. Means your front hubs, axles, and some portion of the front diff is always spinning, regardless of 2WD or 4WD.

Ok, I am totally confused here, thought the Tremor had manually locking hubs & you had to get out and turn them/locking the front end in so it now will do it’s thing and did not have automatic locking hubs

 

[TJ Carr]

I figured there would be something than the same sandbags I've been using for 25 years, but after everything I read, I ended up buying sandbags again. The bags themselves are cheap and the sand is free. There are some water bladder things that looked like they would work well, but they were too expensive. Just be aware that if you live somewhere that it stays below freezing for a while, they can eventually start sliding around in the bed. I don't have a problem where I live because it doesn't get or stay cold, but in the past I've made a simple frame out of 2x4s that straddles the wheelwells that keeps all the sandbags locked in place.

How good are the stock Tremor tires on icy/snowy roads & when you run sand, how much do you put in?

Have a friend who has a rubber bladder he fills up with water and then it freezes in the bed of his Ram and he swears by it

 

[knaffie]

Ok, I am totally confused here, thought the Tremor had manually locking hubs & you had to get out and turn them/locking the front end in so it now will do it’s thing and did not have automatic locking hubs

I can't imagine Ford would remove the automatic locking feature. There would be no reason to do that. As previously stated, we have the best of both worlds now - automatic locking and unlocking with manual backup. Turn the knob and you're in 4x4. Turn it back and you're out. If you have a vacuum leak / mechanical problem or are playing in the mud and snow and want to be 100% sure the hubs are locked in, you can lock them in manually.

 

[tremortime]

they do have automatic locking hubs. If the hub knob is set for auto then it will automatically engage when you turn the ESOF knob. If there is an issue with the vaccum system and they don't engage then you can turn them manually to lock them in and when you turn the ESOF knob then the transfer case will engage and you will have 4WD.

 

[knaffie]

How good are the stock Tremor tires on icy/snowy roads & when you run sand, how much do you put in?

Have a friend who has a rubber bladder he fills up with water and then it freezes in the bed of his Ram and he swears by it

Duratracs are some of the best tires for the snow. That's what law enforcement trucks use near me.

Weight in the bed is critical to any pickup being capable in the snow. Without it, the back end doesn't get traction. This is why SUVs work so much better in the snow (the weight of the cab over the rear axle). The water bladders are neat, but expensive. I run 1500# of sand bags in back of my truck. The difference with the sand bags is night and day better, even while using studded snow tires. The truck also sits closer to level and rides a lot better than empty.

 

[TJ Carr]

they do have automatic locking hubs. If the hub knob is set for auto then it will automatically engage when you turn the ESOF knob. If there is an issue with the vaccum system and they don't engage then you can turn them manually to lock them in and when you turn the ESOF knob then the transfer case will engage and you will have 4WD.

I’m confused and apparently very out of date when it comes to the Tremors 4x4 system.

Had no idea it was a split automatic/manual system & that you had to manually lock in the hubs before you can engage the front wheel drive

But it sounds like you do not have to lock the hubs in and instead can leave them unlocked & the electronic shifting system will lock the front hubs for you when you select 4 wheel drive

 

[TJ Carr]

Duratracs are some of the best tires for the snow. That's what law enforcement trucks use near me.

Weight in the bed is critical to any pickup being capable in the snow. Without it, the back end doesn't get traction. This is why SUVs work so much better in the snow (the weight of the cab over the rear axle). The water bladders are neat, but expensive. I run 1500# of sand bags in back of my truck. The difference with the sand bags is night and day better, even while using studded snow tires. The truck also sits closer to level and rides a lot better than empty.

Thanks, I was always told you have 2 schools Of thought about winter tires by people who live in snow country, skinny or fat, one to dig down and the other to float on top

I can see my winter learning curve is quite steep

 

[knaffie]

I’m confused and apparently very out of date when it comes to the Tremors 4x4 system.

Had no idea it was a split automatic/manual system & that you had to manually lock in the hubs before you can engage the front wheel drive

But it sounds like you do not have to lock the hubs in and instead can leave them unlocked & the electronic shifting system will lock the front hubs for you when you select 4 wheel drive

There is no unlock setting on the hubs. It's automatic or lock. Leave them in automatic and just turn the dial in the cab and the truck does the rest for you. It's that easy. You should only ever need to lock the hubs if there is a vacuum leak or some other reason the automatic function won't work.

 

[knaffie]

Thanks, I was always told you have 2 schools Of thought about winter tires by people who live in snow country, skinny or fat, one to dig down and the other to float on top

I can see my winter learning curve is quite steep

We run 1-2 PSI on 40-42" tires on the Jeeps to help stay on top of the snow. Spreads the tire out wide a distributes the weight so it doesn't dig down. Doesn't always work though! Completely different than street driving of course.

 

[TJ Carr]

There is no unlock setting on the hubs. It's automatic or lock. Leave them in automatic and just turn the dial in the cab and the truck does the rest for you. It's that easy. You should only ever need to lock the hubs if there is a vacuum leak or some other reason the automatic function won't work.

View attachment 37636

Had no idea the Super Duty had such a dual system, learning has occurred, thank you

 

[ccw]

How good are the stock Tremor tires on icy/snowy roads & when you run sand, how much do you put in?

I’ve run DuraTracs on my F-150 for the last 7 years. IMO they’re about as close as you can get to dedicated winter tires without being dedicated winter tires.

Dedicated winter tires will still out perform them by a fair margin, but I’m comfortable running DuraTracs year round. I also don’t live in the snow in town. If I did I might still consider dedicated winters to get that extra edge.

 

[ccw]

if you need them in the ski area parking lot maybe it’s just that good of a day ya know lol.

Lol! Very true!

Lots of valid points about chained up all 4 wheels. I’ve put a lot of those 4link 7mms on we even had some in double width when I was on a search and rescue team for the dually trucks we used to tow the snow cats around. And talk about heavy… those square links with that many cams are a breeze to put on. Just keep a wood block in your truck to drive up on.

That’s good context on the 7mm square! I think I’m leaning more towards just doing that on all 4 corners for simplicity.

As for the wood block, thinking of getting this chain ramp: https://tirechain.com/tire-chains-ramps-sno-chain-ramps-safety-orange-color/

I think one of our main points is in the northern tier when you hit chain law requirements and I’d rather stay on the “you have the right chains” side of the Washington staties. And yes can be used in mud.

Yep, exactly. Especially if going off the beaten track in winter.

 

[Hopsferdays]

Lol! Very true!


That’s good context on the 7mm square! I think I’m leaning more towards just doing that on all 4 corners for simplicity.

As for the wood block, thinking of getting this chain ramp: https://tirechain.com/tire-chains-ramps-sno-chain-ramps-safety-orange-color/


Yep, exactly. Especially if going off the beaten track in winter.

I’ve seen those lol I’ll stick with my 2x4 it’s just to give it some stand-off from the ground and make it easier to hook the back. But like I said those multi cam ones are a breeze. Because instead of wrestling out the last link just get as much as you can and then cam all the ones that go. Not that’s I’ve had a bad time with the Washington staties I’d just like to stay on the side I’m on with them. I.e. good side lol

 

[DarinH]

SORRY IN ADVANCE IF THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED TO DEATH, BUT.....

I have a '21 Tremor with the original wheels and tires. The owners manual says not to put chains on size LT285 75 R18 tires, which is

V-Bar ice diggers from tirechains.com

Have you ran with them on the front? Any clearance issues?

 

[DarinH]

Just for the sake of discussion, the law everywhere I've been through is you either need 4x4 and snow rated (M+S) tires OR chains on the drive axle. I've have not yet seen where you are required to have both. I'm not saying this is the case everywhere, but this has been my personal experience in the Sierra and Rockies. If you choose to carry chains in your truck, you may be doing it for your own reasons, not to satisfy an officer that won't let you over a pass. It's still a good idea to carry chains "just incase" if you drive in the snow a lot.

Even 100% stock, these trucks are so much more capable in the snow than most vehicles on the road. They already have a ton more ground clearance compared to just about anything else. Having good tires, 4x4, and weight in the bed will get you further than most vehicles that do have chains installed.

It's unbelievable how many cars I see with nearly bald and/or summer tires on their Subaru, Tesla, or other SUV or car that think can go anywhere in the snow just because its AWD. Anything not 4x4 / AWD is of course worse yet. It's not uncommon to see cars that came up to Tahoe for a vacation and be completely unable to move in the snow, even on flat ground. These are more the vehicles that the chain laws are aimed toward in my opinion. They'll be the ones stuck blocking the road when the hills get steeper and snow gets deeper.

Where I hunt in Colorado, the slightest bid of moisture will turn the road to thick snot that clogs your tires, no matter how aggressive or how deep the lugs. Feels the same as driving on ice. Chains throw the mud much quicker and allow you to get a bite into it, so the truck actually goes where you steer if your driving slow enough. I know that's not the case for most people that want to have chains "just in case", but for me it increases my chances of getting a nice buck.

 

[ccw]

Ok, for those following along (@Hopsferdays), went with the 7mm square on all 4 corners. Part of me likes the symmetry, part of me likes the fact they have cams.

Also got 2 storage bags (one for each pair of chains), 2 pairs of the spider tensioners, and 1 pair of the tire chain ramps.

Ain't cheap, but these things don't go bad and could save my butt someday.

Thanks for all the help on that decision, everyone!