Uncomfortable Tow

[avocadofarmer]

FYI the Tremor front sway bar has about a 40% smaller diameter than one from a regular F250. I have a non Tremor truck and swapped mine out for the off road / articulation improvement.

I've also got the original bar sitting in the barn if someone wants it for shipping.

 

[Camarox2]

I don’t believe it’s a tire issue. I still have the stock Tremor tires & wheels. I just make sure to adjust them up towards max PSI when towing.

My toy trailer is 32’ ft long (total length is closer to 37’) and about 13,000 lbs when loaded. So I wouldn’t go spending money on new tires just yet.

Get a rear sway bar & adjust the hitch as I said before.
I have been down this road & I know what your dealing with. Sorry, it sucks, but it took me a while to get everything dialed in as well.


P.S. Love me some Cincinnati Chili.
(Either way, beans or no beans)

 

[Dzho]

I've read where you should deactivate trailer sway control if you are using a WDH/manual sway control

 

[Mwchris]

Sorry, I meant the rear sway bar first. That would not be a waste of money even if it didn't totally fix your issue. Swapping tires to the next load rating (for stiffer sidewalls) may or may not help, but it will degrade your unloaded ride.
The hitch should be on the short list though. Maybe after the rear bar. Having a sleeve leaves some play in the shank. That means that there is uncontrolled movement before the spring bars take the stress of the trailer moving around.
One more thing to check is the manuals on the truck and hitch. One of them says to disable trailer sway control. I think it's the hitch manual. They fight each other. I keep mine off.
Not to be a camper nanny, but it wouldn't hurt to verify your trailer and tongue weight. I can attest that a long box with 20" wheels will mask loading issues.

Thank you for clarifying @The Evil Twin. Probably not an issue today with most modern HD trucks, but in the past it was helpful to have the smaller shank just incase I needed to tow by another truck, but point well taken. The comment about trailer sway control is helpful. I took a look on my drive into work and saw it was enabled. I will give that a try to. I don't recall seeing it in the Blue Ox manual, but will check. And, I do need to scale it with the new trailer, just haven't done it yet. It will happen sooner than later.

Hmmmmm....

I was expecting so much more from THE @Optimus🤖 LOL.

Here are the two things that made a huge improvement for my setup (22 Tremor + 10.4k GVWR Winnebago Voyage 2831).
1) Ensuring I have the WDH setup to return 50% back to the front axle. Easy check using a tape measure. This is the Ford towing guide recommendation for the SD and I found that it works well.
2) I added Timbrens to the rear. I used the ones for an F250 which have a bit more clearance before engagement. When the TT is hooked up they are engaged and essentially add spring rate to the system. Squat was really bad, in my opinion, prior to adding these.

Towing feels rock solid now. FYI - I use the Weighsafe Truetow hitch.

Thanks @Modman this is helpful.

Have you turned off the "Lane Assist"? I felt like I was fighting to keep my truck in a straight line, turned off the lane assist and it's a night and day difference. Tracks like a champ. I think the sway bar will be a huge improvement but I'd still kill the lane assist.

@WakeZilla YES! I had too it was so bad I felt like I was fighting it. That helped a little but still was not ideal. Quite honestly, I am not a huge fan of it even without a trailer, but maybe I just need to be a better driver.

I have 2024 F350 (non-Tremor), I also have experienced this problem towing a 30' bumper pull 10K load (no WDH). I do have a non stock tire and wheel setup as well. As a valid test comparing apples to apples (for the most part) I travel with my Brother in law with this trailer and load, one of us tows to the vacation and the other one tows home. He had no issues at all towing this load, while I white knuckled it. On a side note, I have also felt my truck also wanders without a load but it is amplified when towing. I have tried to troubleshoot as many have, I have added caster and a Fox 2.0 steering stabilizer. Those changes have made a very minimal difference.

Thanks @Tightlines I appreciate the feedback and reinforcement that this issue is not between my ears.

I don’t believe it’s a tire issue. I still have the stock Tremor tires & wheels. I just make sure to adjust them up towards max PSI when towing.

My toy trailer is 32’ ft long (total length is closer to 37’) and about 13,000 lbs when loaded. So I wouldn’t go spending money on new tires just yet.

Get a rear sway bar & adjust the hitch as I said before.
I have been down this road & I know what your dealing with. Sorry, it sucks, but it took me a while to get everything dialed in as well.


P.S. Love me some Cincinnati Chili.
(Either way, beans or no beans)

Thanks @Camarox2 ! This really helps! And, I am quite partial to Cincinnati style Chili. Perhaps another thread, but I'm more of a Skyline guy myself.

I've read where you should deactivate trailer sway control if you are using a WDH/manual sway control

Thanks, @Dzho! Someone else mentioned this and I didn't know it was an option. I verified it was enabled on the truck configuration when I was driving in this morning, so this is another area to check.

 

[Mwchris]

Ok, so it is pretty well unanimous I should disable lane departure, and test turning off trailer sway control, but ALSO purchase a rear sway bar for starters. So the question is, Which Sway Bar. The following are what I am looking at. Any recommendations one way or the other?

Hellwig 1-5/16" Big Wig Rear Sway Bar 17-25 Ford F250/350 Super Duty 4WD Pickup and Dually, 17-25 F250 Cab & Chassis 4WD​

Part Number: 7320

Hellwig 1-1/4" Rear Sway Bar Kit For 17-25 Ford F250/F350 Super Duty 4WD (including dually)​

Part Number: 7761

 

[shermanator2]

Sway bars have little to do with trailer sway. The term "sway bar" is a complete misnomer. They are more correctly called "anti-roll bars". They reduce body roll in the sense of motion dynamics. Pitch, roll, and yaw are the three directions that a body in motion can rotate. Maybe the aircraft pilots on the forum can explain it better than me.

I think that only Super Duties with the camper package come with a rear sway bar. The high center of gravity of a truck with a camper causes more body roll when cornering, so they add a rear sway to help compensate. There are plenty of trucks out there that tow just fine with no rear sway bar. I think that on the road a truck with a sway bar does handle and feel better so I always order trucks with the camper package (if available) just for that reason, but still they are not necessary for towing. As mentioned, sway bars reduce articulation so they are not desirable off road. That is why the Tremor comes with a reduced front sway bar and no rear sway bar.

Trailer sway is mostly about trailer load distribution and tongue weight. I did not see above a measured tongue weight of the trailer. That is the place to start. Make sure it is at least 1200 lbs for a 10,000 lb trailer. Once that is established, adjust the WD. I have published a spreadsheet elsewhere in this forum that you can use to help with that. For a Tremor with this much tongue weight you will want a little WD, but not too much. Too much WD can increase sway because it unloads the rear axle. A first shot at setting the WD is to take out half of the front end lift that you get without the WD. Don't take it all out or try to make the front drop, that is too much WD.

Again and most important, Start with the tongue weight. If it is not 1200 lbs or more, all bets are off.

 

[shermanator2]

I am not saying not to get a sway bar. I think the truck will feel better on the road with it, but don't expect it to fix your trailer sway problem. It is not the root cause. It may make it feel less significant, but it will still be there.

 

[Mwchris]

Sway bars have little to do with trailer sway. The term "sway bar" is a complete misnomer. They are more correctly called "anti-roll bars". They reduce body roll in the sense of motion dynamics. Pitch, roll, and yaw are the three directions that a body in motion can rotate. Maybe the aircraft pilots on the forum can explain it better than me.

I think that only Super Duties with the camper package come with a rear sway bar. The high center of gravity of a truck with a camper causes more body roll when cornering, so they add a rear sway to help compensate. There are plenty of trucks out there that tow just fine with no rear sway bar. I think that on the road a truck with a sway bar does handle and feel better so I always order trucks with the camper package (if available) just for that reason, but still they are not necessary for towing. As mentioned, sway bars reduce articulation so they are not desirable off road. That is why the Tremor comes with a reduced front sway bar and no rear sway bar.

Trailer sway is mostly about trailer load distribution and tongue weight. I did not see above a measured tongue weight of the trailer. That is the place to start. Make sure it is at least 1200 lbs for a 10,000 lb trailer. Once that is established, adjust the WD. I have published a spreadsheet elsewhere in this forum that you can use to help with that. For a Tremor with this much tongue weight you will want a little WD, but not too much. Too much WD can increase sway because it unloads the rear axle. A first shot at setting the WD is to take out half of the front end lift that you get without the WD. Don't take it all out or try to make the front drop, that is too much WD.

Again and most important, Start with the tongue weight. If it is not 1200 lbs or more, all bets are off.

I am not saying not to get a sway bar. I think the truck will feel better on the road with it, but don't expect it to fix your trailer sway problem. It is not the root cause. It may make it feel less significant, but it will still be there.

To be clear, The trailer may have had some sway, but it had more to do with what felt like the truck was wandering all over the road. This was made worse anytime a vehicle passed me. So there may be some adjustments that need to be made in the WDH setup, but these problems did not exist on two previous vehicles. Yes, I know I need to weight it. That said, it is an entirely different vehicle. I went with the Tremor because I liked the look, and for occasional off-road use, but didn't expect the towing performance to be this bad. And, to be clear, the engine performed perfectly, it was the handling that was awful. Additionally, when not towing I have zero issues with handling. This is only when loaded and towing.

Thank you for your insights @shermanator2

 

[shermanator2]

To be clear, The trailer may have had some sway, but it had more to do with what felt like the truck was wandering all over the road. This was made worse anytime a vehicle passed me.

Sounds like a tongue weight problem. Maybe too much WD dialed in. How about air in the tires? More may help. Are you using the same hitch you used with the other trucks? Are you sure the trailer is loaded the same as before?

 

[Tugboat]

2024 F250 Tremor, with 6.7, towing a 35ft Momentum 31G @11,000lbs over to Sturgis through Wasatch over the Continental Divide up to 7300ft - this is the combination that works well

• Stock tires set at ~65psi cold
• Ford OEM sway bar per https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/oem-rear-swaybar-install.15363/ much less $$ than Helwig, for me works just fine towing or not towing off road articulation doesn't seem affected
• Have a 3 inch receiver discovered that running sleeve for 2.5 Equalizer sway control hitch didn't work well at all

The above led me to purchasing a Weight Safe True Tow Middleweight hitch - 3 inch receiver controls "truck suck" and minimizes wind issues might be worth taking a look at this hitch

Edited to clarify this rig is bumper pull

 

[AZRocks]

Recommend the OP get proper weight measurements for the truck and trailer to ensure proper tongue weight percentage of loaded trailer weight. A rear swaybar would be a smart addition. I installed the Helwig 1.25" rear swaybar as well as a heavier front swaybar. I also installed Sumosprings on the truck rear, but this is for a fifth wheel pull. None of this changes how I drive the truck off road. The leaf springs, as heavy as they are, already limit articulation without a lot of weight in the rear.

 

[AZsurveyor]

All but Tremor. Sway bars limit articulation and the Tremor is Offroad focused not setup for heavy towing.

Precisely said.

This more or less goes back to the Tremor vs Non thread -- if you're going to be a adding a rear sway bar, you might as well stick to a Non.

I just think they're two totally different vehicles.

 

[Modman]

A first shot at setting the WD is to take out half of the front end lift that you get without the WD. Don't take it all out or try to make the front drop, that is too much WD.

I have yet to find a better setting than this, which, at the risk of repeating myself, is the Ford towing guide recommendation.

I'll also add that the initial recommended Weighsafe setting for the hitch did not provide enough distribution for me. I've changed a bunch of things since then, included removing some tongue weight (fresh water tank is in the front). I'm currently at ~1100/lbs for ~8500 GVW. With 50% back on the front it tows exceptionally well.

To be clear, The trailer may have had some sway, but it had more to do with what felt like the truck was wandering all over the road.

As others have said it could be not enough tongue or too much distribution. At the other end of the extreme, however, too much lift on the front can also have this effect by unweighting the steer tires.

I previously towed the same trailer and hitch with a 2012 Chevy 2500HD diesel and a 2021 GMC 3500HD diesel with zero issues.

Point of reference, the 7.3 is quite a bit lighter than the 6.7. Assume the Chevy diesels are similar. That extra front end weight helps tremendously for towing in two ways. First, additional front weight helps to offset the lever effect from tongue weight with a travel trailer, minimizing the steer tire issue I mentioned above. Second, center of mass wants to lead. All other things equal, an increase in engine mass will be more stable tracking down the road.

Just based on physics, the 7.3 makes for a better off-roading engine, the 6.7 is better for towing.

 

[WakeZilla]

At some point the bigger question is, "Are you comfortable stopping". I tow a 25' Wakeboard boat and ordered it with a triple axle trailer. The dealership said I didn't need the 3rd axle but for $1,500.00 extra it seemed foolish to give up a an extra set of disk brakes and an extra pair of tire contacts on the pavement. Fully fueled I'm just under 9,000 pounds and my tongue weight is around 1,200 pounds. With lane assist off it tracks straight and stops straight. When you start talking bumper pulls over 30' and 13,000 pounds, don't you start worrying how you are ever going to stop in a hurry? I'd think at that point you want an F-450 dually and get another toy for the occasional off-roading. I like my Tremor a lot but basically it is a compromise for towing and off-roading.

 

[prioinv]

‘22 here. 10k TT with WDH/antisway as well. I bet its the anti sway setting.

If I don’t remember to turn off trailer sway the drive is miserable. I wish I could default to off, but no. Every startup with the trailer my wife needs to remind me to turn it off. When I forget it’s an active jerky mess behind me. Oh - you have to come to a complete stop to change that setting. I know right away that I forgot based on the feel. 30k miles for me with that trailer. I know when it feels wrong.

 

[The Evil Twin]

‘22 here. 10k TT with WDH/antisway as well. I bet its the anti sway setting.

If I don’t remember to turn off trailer sway the drive is miserable. I wish I could default to off, but no. Every startup with the trailer my wife needs to remind me to turn it off. When I forget it’s an active jerky mess behind me. Oh - you have to come to a complete stop to change that setting. I know right away that I forgot based on the feel. 30k miles for me with that trailer. I know when it feels wrong.

I have been wishing for years that Ford trucks would stay in the last mode after a key cycle. IMHO, it's a little dangerous. Not remembering to put it on Tow Mode, Exhaust Braking is bad enough dragging 13k onto the interstate. Having to stop and turn of Trailer Sway is silly.
These days, I just don't the truck off until the days travels are done.

 

[Blade420Play🔪🏆]

I don’t believe it’s a tire issue. I still have the stock Tremor tires & wheels. I just make sure to adjust them up towards max PSI when towing.

My toy trailer is 32’ ft long (total length is closer to 37’) and about 13,000 lbs when loaded. So I wouldn’t go spending money on new tires just yet.

Get a rear sway bar & adjust the hitch as I said before.
I have been down this road & I know what your dealing with. Sorry, it sucks, but it took me a while to get everything dialed in as well.


P.S. Love me some Cincinnati Chili.
(Either way, beans or no beans)
View attachment 213436View attachment 213437

Seconded on the jack up the tire pressure. I pulled my 31' 8k TT running 55f-60r and it was squirrelly as hell but manageable. Jacked my pressure up to 70f-80b and now it rides great barring heavy crosswinds

Edit: Also, I don't use a WD hitch, and the hitch I do use is 2.5" so no sleeve.

Also, BEANS

 

[Mwchris]

Sounds like a tongue weight problem. Maybe too much WD dialed in. How about air in the tires? More may help. Are you using the same hitch you used with the other trucks? Are you sure the trailer is loaded the same as before?

WDH is on the initial settings recommended from Blue Ox (9th chain length from the detached end) next step would be to crank it to the 10th or 11th, but I will get it weighed first. Tire pressure is what is recommended on the door jam 70 front and 80 rear. Same hitch, same load. I've only towed with the Tremor a couple times and haven't had the chance to really adjust it much more than that. Came here for some suggestions., and while I am not a rooking in setting up and towing travel trailers, I appreciate all suggestions to try to get a better tow.

2024 F250 Tremor, with 6.7, towing a 35ft Momentum 31G @11,000lbs over to Sturgis through Wasatch over the Continental Divide up to 7300ft - this is the combination that works well

• Stock tires set at ~65psi cold
• Ford OEM sway bar per https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/oem-rear-swaybar-install.15363/ much less $$ than Helwig, for me works just fine towing or not towing off road articulation doesn't seem affected
• Have a 3 inch receiver discovered that running sleeve for 2.5 Equalizer sway control hitch didn't work well at all

The above led me to purchasing a Weight Safe True Tow Middleweight hitch - 3 inch receiver controls "truck suck" and minimizes wind issues might be worth taking a look at this hitch

Edited to clarify this rig is bumper pull View attachment 213469

Nice rig! I'm pricing Hellwig vs OEM, but dealers are giving me a hard time about OEM being compatible. Plus I have a trip next week and I can get the Hellwig sooner. Hard to believe. Hard to believe a shank would cause this much trouble, especially considering I've used it on two other trucks, but I will considering upgrading the drop hitch to 2.5 inch.

Recommend the OP get proper weight measurements for the truck and trailer to ensure proper tongue weight percentage of loaded trailer weight. A rear swaybar would be a smart addition. I installed the Helwig 1.25" rear swaybar as well as a heavier front swaybar. I also installed Sumosprings on the truck rear, but this is for a fifth wheel pull. None of this changes how I drive the truck off road. The leaf springs, as heavy as they are, already limit articulation without a lot of weight in the rear.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I have yet to find a better setting than this, which, at the risk of repeating myself, is the Ford towing guide recommendation.

I'll also add that the initial recommended Weighsafe setting for the hitch did not provide enough distribution for me. I've changed a bunch of things since then, included removing some tongue weight (fresh water tank is in the front). I'm currently at ~1100/lbs for ~8500 GVW. With 50% back on the front it tows exceptionally well.

As others have said it could be not enough tongue or too much distribution. At the other end of the extreme, however, too much lift on the front can also have this effect by unweighting the steer tires.


Point of reference, the 7.3 is quite a bit lighter than the 6.7. Assume the Chevy diesels are similar. That extra front end weight helps tremendously for towing in two ways. First, additional front weight helps to offset the lever effect from tongue weight with a travel trailer, minimizing the steer tire issue I mentioned above. Second, center of mass wants to lead. All other things equal, an increase in engine mass will be more stable tracking down the road.

Just based on physics, the 7.3 makes for a better off-roading engine, the 6.7 is better for towing.

@Modman I have been thinking about the two items I bolded above. I do agree that I need to get it weighed. I also have thought that part of the issue could be the front end it lighter with the Gas engine vs. the Diesel GM engine. Typically there is an 800-1000 pound difference between the two which helps keep the front planted, even if the WDH wasn't 1000% dialed in, which could now be more noticeable with the 7.3 being lighter.

‘22 here. 10k TT with WDH/antisway as well. I bet its the anti sway setting.

If I don’t remember to turn off trailer sway the drive is miserable. I wish I could default to off, but no. Every startup with the trailer my wife needs to remind me to turn it off. When I forget it’s an active jerky mess behind me. Oh - you have to come to a complete stop to change that setting. I know right away that I forgot based on the feel. 30k miles for me with that trailer. I know when it feels wrong.

I was looking at the setting today when I got home and my trailer setup saves at least as far as the sway control settings. I also looked at the information about it, and I don't recall seeing the message pop-up on the screen that it had to be engaged. So I'm not sure that is the issue. Either way I will try disabling it.

I have been wishing for years that Ford trucks would stay in the last mode after a key cycle. IMHO, it's a little dangerous. Not remembering to put it on Tow Mode, Exhaust Braking is bad enough dragging 13k onto the interstate. Having to stop and turn of Trailer Sway is silly.
These days, I just don't the truck off until the days travels are done.

Agreed! I had the routine down with my GM but having only towed with the Tremor a few times I don't have it committed to muscle memory yet.

Seconded on the jack up the tire pressure. I pulled my 31' 8k TT running 55f-60r and it was squirrelly as hell but manageable. Jacked my pressure up to 70f-80b and now it rides great barring heavy crosswinds

Edit: Also, I don't use a WD hitch, and the hitch I do use is 2.5" so no sleeve.

Also, BEANS

Running stock pressure (70 front and 80 rear). More suggestions on the sleeve vs hitch. . . but you said you like Beans in your Chili, so I am not sure if I can believe anything you say because you are clearly not right in the head.

 

[gmbpilot757]

100% sounds like a weight distribution problem. We’re in the middle of a 2 week trip right now with all 4 kids loaded up and towing our 33’ TT right about 7k lbs. It’s all about the having the WDH dialed in. I use the Equalizer and the truck feels rock solid. Get that WDH dialed in and I bet you’ll have a whole new towing experience.

Second, ditch the sleeve and get the 2.5” shank.

Side bar…I’d also ensure your tires are inflated to the proper PSI for the WEIGHT, not what the door jam says. Can make a big difference.

Not trying to say you’re a rookie and towing your TT, but just offering my $.02

Good luck

 

[Mwchris]

100% sounds like a weight distribution problem. We’re in the middle of a 2 week trip right now with all 4 kids loaded up and towing our 33’ TT right about 7k lbs. It’s all about the having the WDH dialed in. I use the Equalizer and the truck feels rock solid. Get that WDH dialed in and I bet you’ll have a whole new towing experience.

Second, ditch the sleeve and get the 2.5” shank.

Side bar…I’d also ensure your tires are inflated to the proper PSI for the WEIGHT, not what the door jam says. Can make a big difference.

Not trying to say you’re a rookie and towing your TT, but just offering my $.02

Good luck

Do you have a sway bar installed?
Is your truck gas or diesel?