Catching up on the thread. Busy work week and not much recreation in the cards for this morning as F and C are at their meeting place this morning here in Montana (-40F and -40C) and that is ambient (not windchill).
Regarding jacks. for our new Superduty and inbound Supertramp, it's time to start thinking about a "Super" jack of some type, so timely subject. Like others, I'm stuck deciding between a bottle jack based system (lighter, more compact, easier to store) and a floor jack based system (work better on varied terrain, faster and easier to use). Still on the fence on this one. Even with bottlejack limitations, there are some accessories and some brands that may make a bottle jack a bit more useable in situation where they struggle. Anyone have opinions or real world experience with
https://safejacks.com/ for example?
You have no faith. We care a lot.
It's fun and interesting to hear background like that. So many different use cases and I find the most interesting ones are the most different from mine. When I research, it's for my specific needs. So I educate myself with blinders on; focused on those scenarios. But when others share their background and use case, it gives me the opportunity to consider and ponder those scenarios. And I love a good excuse for research.
Supertramp is working up a optional, larger DC charging solution for those with the larger battery bank sizes. I know they were considering three different solutions, but the new Victron XS 50amp, you mentioned, might make it a much easier decision for them. Boom. Done.
For what I call "power users" like you and
@Chris-DTA, or anyone that powers office equipment/Starlink or has an A/C unit, increased DC charging seems like a must. Multiple DC chargers may be required, and desirable. I had this conversation with Christoph when I found out he was going with multiple DC chargers. I like the idea of redundancy. The basic version would be one large cable running to camper and powering two DC chargers. But you can take the redundancy thing to the next level and run two sets of cabling from two-underhood batteries, which are tied to two alternators.
I do realize that the dual-battery setups, on pickups, are tied together, but in a sense, the pickup manufactures have already built in that redundancy for you (two alternators and two batteries) so why not continue that with dual independent cables and dual DC chargers?
Running two independent DC charge cables may seem like overkill, but it allows for two runs of smaller gauge wire rather than one large run. And, it allows for two independent routes under the truck. Waiting for driving damage or a porcupine to chew through your one DC cable is a less-than-ideal time to start considering redundancy. Ha.
Building out your electrical system, how you want it, from the start is the most economical way to do it, but another option is the notion of 'adding' rather than 'replacing' if the mods come later. And that works well if the intent is redundancy. One can start with the stock cabling and stock (or slightly larger) DC charger. Then, later on, just add to it. Start with a 30 or 50 amp and stock cabling. Then later, you can add a second run of cabling and another 30 or 50amp charger.
I've mentioned it previously and/or in other threads, but I like the ability to be able to disconnect DC charging easily. On previous pickup, I had a Blue Sea brand disconnect switch under the hood. That was the easiest place to disconnect DC charging when the truck/camper connector was inaccessible when the camper was on and not lifted by the jacks. I typically left the DC switch in the off position because solar generally cared for all our power needs. But DC charging was only a turn-of-the-switch away if needed.
With the Supertramp, the DC cable connector is accessible with the camper loaded (plug is by the rear bumper in the section of bed typically covered when the tailgate is on). I'll likely not plug in that connector and rely on solar but it will be there if we need it. Another benefit of a disconnect switch might be if there is cable damage and you want to isolate, though realistically, the fuse/breaker on that cable run should have already done that for you if the damage is bad enough.
That Victron Orion XS is going to be a great little unit.
For those curious, dimension comparison is:
Orion TR Smart 12/12 - 30amp - 130 x 186 x 80 mm (5.1 x 7.3 x 3.2 inch)
Orion XS 12/12 - 50amp - 137.3 x 123.1 x 40 mm (5.4 x 4.85 x 1.6 inch)
Orion TR Smart 12/12-30
Datasheet:
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...t-DC-DC-chargers-non-isolated-360-400W-EN.pdf
Page:
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated#downloads
Orion XS 12/12-50
Spec sheet:
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...ion-XS-12-12-50A-DC-DC-battery-charger-EN.pdf
Page:
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-xs-12-12-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger#pd-nav-image
View attachment 140852
Speaking of Victron, as we previously discussed, the Supertramp is overpaneled. Meaning the solar controller's max output is less than what the solar array can generate under ideal conditions. Some overpanelling is often desired because the array often doesn't make it's max output (winter when sun is low in the sky, morning and evening, when they are hot (happens more easily with these flexible panels rather than rigid that have air gap under them), dirty panels, shade, clouds, etc.) so you overpanel to gather more solar in those cases. As several of us have noted, the stock Supertramp solar controller is the Victron 75/15 which has a max throughput of 15amp (220watts max per spec sheet) and the Supertramp has 330watts of panels on the roof.
That is a bit too much overpaneling and leaving a fair bit of potential unused during the middle of the day. I'm having Supertramp instead install the Victron 100/20 which has 20amp max (290watt max per spec sheet) as it is the exact same footprint and only 2cm thicker. They were already looking into that charge controller and were bringing one in to check fitment in existing location (due to the access panel with fuse block and breakers closing over the top of the DC and solar chargers). Fit was acceptable so I'm upgrading to get an extra 5 amps (70watts) from the controller.
Something I would like to see, and have suggested, is a stock (or optional) external solar plug wired into the same solar controller. If one is already maxed on solar input at a particular time, it won't make a difference, but with a portable solar panel, there would be the opportunity to supplement an underperforming rooftop array when there is still available overhead from the solar controller. Angling a portable panel directly towards the sun is much more efficient than panels laying flat on the roof in the morning, evening or winter. And, it allows one to park the camper (and rooftop panels) in the shade and place your portable panels in the sun. For just a bit more wiring, a splice, and an external plug, one could use a portable panel tied into the existing solar controller.
Good info
@gmoon on the wizard. I haven't used that one, but there are a lot a tables, charts, and calculators available that help ensure one uses adequate cable gauge for a given run length and amperage.
On our FWC, standard dealer installers only used little 10gauge wire for the pickup's DC cable run. It struggled with voltage drop and throughput. On my OEV camper, REDARC specced that installers must use 6gauge. That worked great even with the REDARC Manager 30 set to charge at the full 30amp rate. One can easily adjust the REDARC units, with about 4 button presses, to charge anywhere from 4amps to 30amps and since they were a combination charger with input from Solar, pickup DC, or shore power AC, it would prioritize "green". Meaning, it would automatically use solar input to fulfil the called-for charge rate. If could 100% satisfy the called-for charge rate (say you had it set at 10amp charge rate), then no DC was used. If the solar array was only generating 6amps, then the other 4amps would be made up of DC charging (or AC charging if parked and plugged into shore power).
Slick little system. Only quirk with REDARC there is all inputs have to be the same voltage, so 12v. One cannot wire 12v solar panels in series; they had to be wired in parallel and that complicates wiring of a large, multipanel array and makes it more likely to bump up against the amp limits on some solar cables and connectors. But being able to easily adjust charger output was handy in many situations. Such as if you were using shorepower on a shared circuit so only wanted to draw so much AC power from the outlet. Or, if you had a smaller battery bank and were in no hurry so you wanted to limit how fast the battery was charged (be that from solar, DC, AC or combination of those) or reduce the draw from your pickup battery/alternator. Or, if you wanted to avoid running your lithium battery all the way back up to 100% because you were going to store it, you could set charge rate low so it wouldn't be charged by the time I was home and parked in the shop (another reason I had a DC shutoff switch on the DC cabling).
One thing to keep in mind with calculating is the length of the cable run (and, depending on the calculator you use, you may need to multiple the run by two since you are going out and back; positive and negative). I found it interesting that Supertramp stock cable runs are longer than other slide-in campers I've owned because they run the pickup's wiring all the way to a connector back by the rear bumper. From that connector, the cable goes into the camper an then runs forward again up to the DC charger. The pro of that is convenience and access even with camper on. The con is it's a longer run.
For my two previous campers, the pickup was wired so the DC cabling ran from the pickup battery into the front of the pickup bed and was terminated with a large Anderson plug. The camper plug was at the front of the camper so once plugged in, the cabling continued rearward, inside the camper, to the DC charger. This made for a much shorter cable run than the routing of the Supertramp cabling (At least 7feet shorter). Shorter run means less voltage drop for a given size cable and can be the difference between needing to upsize cable or not. Having the plug at the front of the pickup bed and front of camper is slightly less convenient, however, because you can not get to it with the camper loaded and you must plug/unplug it with the camper jacked up and camper within a foot or so of being in position.
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