The TREMOR Towing Table

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soop

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It would be the lightest possible config to get the biggest possible number.

So lowest trim level, no options. This means front bench seat, no moon roof, no fifth wheel prep, etc.

In the Tremor’s case it would be an XLT since you can’t get Tremor on an XL.
I just realized you can't even add the Camper package to the Tremor. (Which makes sense given one point of the Tremor is to delete the sway bar.) It's curious then that Ford is publishing Tremor numbers on the Camper page. :\
 

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I just realized you can't even add the Camper package to the Tremor. (Which makes sense given one point of the Tremor is to delete the sway bar.) It's curious then that Ford is publishing Tremor numbers on the Camper page. :\
Ya I’ve also been intrigued by that. Maybe it’s a concession to the fact people will put campers on trucks without the camper package regardless?
 

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Sweet guide. You might add payload info as it pertains to Tremors. Reason being is that the 5er/gooseneck tow ratings get to be a bit fictitious when pin weight comes into play. For example, "rule of thumb" is pin weight = ~20% of trailer weight. My Lariat 6.7L F350 Tremor has about a 3333# payload meaning the "rule of thumb" maximum 5er/gooseneck trailer weight is around 16.5k# versus the Ford ~20k rating.
 

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Sweet guide. You might add payload info as it pertains to Tremors. Reason being is that the 5er/gooseneck tow ratings get to be a bit fictitious when pin weight comes into play. For example, "rule of thumb" is pin weight = ~20% of trailer weight. My Lariat 6.7L F350 Tremor has about a 3333# payload meaning the "rule of thumb" maximum 5er/gooseneck trailer weight is around 16.5k# versus the Ford ~20k rating.
See the last number of posts discussing how to add payload to the table.

Payload is tricky to summarize because it’s so configuration dependent. It’s possible to have 4000 pounds of payload on a Tremor, which lets you nearly max out the towing capacity, or you can have a payload capacity around 2500 pounds which severely restricts you. And everywhere in between.
 

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Here is a question.... We have determined in another forum that the only difference between the F250 and F350 Tremors are the GVWR stickers and the number badge. So shouldn't the F250 be capable of the same weights and payloads as the F350 for identical configurations? I know the F250 is derated since it is a 3/4 ton truck, but, that is badging and on paper only.

So technically, couldn't the F250 carry and haul the same non-commercial trailer as the F350? I know commercial is totally different and regulated, but my understanding is that recreational is not regulated, at least not in Kentucky. I am novice to all this and only pull conventional and only a 20 foot bass boat. But if I do buy a 5th wheel in the future, what keeps me from buying the 21K instead of the 18K? My 250 is the exact same as the 350, is it not?

I'm not trying to argue by any means, I am just adding this for my own knowledge because I know that my F250 KR Tremor will be identical in every way to a F350 KR Tremor, minus the badge and stickers. I also assume one big negative could be insurance liability in an accident due to the trailer exceeding the derated sticker.
 

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Here is a question.... We have determined in another forum that the only difference between the F250 and F350 Tremors are the GVWR stickers and the number badge. So shouldn't the F250 be capable of the same weights and payloads as the F350 for identical configurations? I know the F250 is derated since it is a 3/4 ton truck, but, that is badging and on paper only.

So technically, couldn't the F250 carry and haul the same non-commercial trailer as the F350? I know commercial is totally different and regulated, but my understanding is that recreational is not regulated, at least not in Kentucky. I am novice to all this and only pull conventional and only a 20 foot bass boat. But if I do buy a 5th wheel in the future, what keeps me from buying the 21K instead of the 18K? My 250 is the exact same as the 350, is it not?

I'm not trying to argue by any means, I am just adding this for my own knowledge because I know that my F250 KR Tremor will be identical in every way to a F350 KR Tremor, minus the badge and stickers. I also assume one big negative could be insurance liability in an accident due to the trailer exceeding the derated sticker.
From a “can the truck tow it safely mechanically” standpoint, you’re correct. The 250 Tremor is identical to the 350 Tremor assuming the same engine for each.

From purely a ”getting scaled on the side of the road standpoint” all that matters is that your vehicle (both truck and trailer) is licensed for their weight. If you’re over your licensed weight, you can be ticketed.

I know for a fact that in WA licensed weight is completely independent of GVWR/GCWR, and it’s likely this way in most, if not all, states (contact your DOL to confirm, of course :)). For example, my F-150 is licensed for 8000 pounds even though it has a GVWR of 7200. I could license it for 11,300 and match a 350 if I wanted, and would just need to pay the additional registration fees.

Where this gets fuzzy is from a liability and general “dangerous driving” standpoint. While I haven’t heard of any specific stories in this regard, it’s not hard to imagine. From what I’ve read, DOT officers care a lot about GAWR and tire load ratings but not really GVWR. If you are over either of those, I bet there’s something they can ticket you for if they want to, basically falling under negligence or dangerous driving.

Additionally, if you get into an accident and are over GVWR/GCWR/GAWR/tire ratings, it certainly seems possible that not only would you be susceptible to the same tickets mentioned above, but it seems quite possible your insurance company could use that information to deny coverage.

Again, I haven’t specifically heard of that happening. But it’s contract law so it seems within the realm of possibility, even if the truck is technically derated and just as mechanically capable as a 350.

Ironically, with the 250, because of the smaller GVWR, you can tow a larger GVWR trailer before hitting the 26,001 pound magic number that requires you to get a CDL (with the exception of RVs - though in some states an RV endorsement is required instead). But if you’re pushing it that high, then you start to run into the other concerns above, of course.
 

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From a “can the truck tow it safely mechanically” standpoint, you’re correct. The 250 Tremor is identical to the 350 Tremor assuming the same engine for each.

From purely a ”getting scaled on the side of the road standpoint” all that matters is that your vehicle (both truck and trailer) is licensed for their weight. If you’re over your licensed weight, you can be ticketed.

I know for a fact that in WA licensed weight is completely independent of GVWR/GCWR, and it’s likely this way in most, if not all, states (contact your DOL to confirm, of course :)). For example, my F-150 is licensed for 8000 pounds even though it has a GVWR of 7200. I could license it for 11,300 and match a 350 if I wanted, and would just need to pay the additional registration fees.

Where this gets fuzzy is from a liability and general “dangerous driving” standpoint. While I haven’t heard of any specific stories in this regard, it’s not hard to imagine. From what I’ve read, DOT officers care a lot about GAWR and tire load ratings but not really GVWR. If you are over either of those, I bet there’s something they can ticket you for if they want to, basically falling under negligence or dangerous driving.

Additionally, if you get into an accident and are over GVWR/GCWR/GAWR/tire ratings, it certainly seems possible that not only would you be susceptible to the same tickets mentioned above, but it seems quite possible your insurance company could use that information to deny coverage.

Again, I haven’t specifically heard of that happening. But it’s contract law so it seems within the realm of possibility, even if the truck is technically derated and just as mechanically capable as a 350.

Ironically, with the 250, because of the smaller GVWR, you can tow a larger GVWR trailer before hitting the 26,001 pound magic number that requires you to get a CDL (with the exception of RVs - though in some states an RV endorsement is required instead). But if you’re pushing it that high, then you start to run into the other concerns above, of course.
Thanks, that all makes sense and goes along with what I was thinking. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a DOT or police officer pulling a non commercial truck/trailer over and weighing them. Commercial I've seen and they have to enter weigh stations, but recreational never have to go through weigh stations here. If I decide to push the weight of the F250 in the future, I'll definitely pay attention to the laws within the other states before travel.

Of course, to keep from getting pulled over I could always replace my badges with 350 ones and be incognito....lmbo???
 

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Thanks, that all makes sense and goes along with what I was thinking. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a DOT or police officer pulling a non commercial truck/trailer over and weighing them. Commercial I've seen and they have to enter weigh stations, but recreational never have to go through weigh stations here. If I decide to push the weight of the F250 in the future, I'll definitely pay attention to the laws within the other states before travel.

Of course, to keep from getting pulled over I could always replace my badges with 350 ones and be incognito....lmbo???
Ya from my reading it’s pretty rare for them to pull over obviously personal use rigs. If you’re hauling equipment or other things that appear more commercial I’ve heard of folks being pulled over out of suspicion they’re commercial, even if it’s entirely for personal use.
 

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Ya from my reading it’s pretty rare for them to pull over obviously personal use rigs. If you’re hauling equipment or other things that appear more commercial I’ve heard of folks being pulled over out of suspicion they’re commercial, even if it’s entirely for personal use.
I would use caution when traveling, some areas will check you if you get pulled over for anything, non working tail light, speeding, failure to use turn signal when changing lanes. Yes failing to use turn signal changing lanes was a reason my buddy got pulled over in WY. That officer was trying his best to find a bigger ticket. Got weighed measured and completely gone through. Luckily for my buddy was within the capacities of the truck and trailers, camper/boat. Was a big part of my decision to go 350, since some of my camping loads with full cab and ATV in the box are pushing beyond the stickered limits of the 250.

On a side note I also could have registered for more or less than the listed GVWR in MT. I didn’t know that was possible since was the first time I had been asked when registering a truck over the years. Not sure if a higher registered weight would pass muster in all states, I personally don’t care to find out the hard way.
 

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Ford's Towing Guide is very confusing and borderline misleading. This table simplifies that guide strictly for Tremor variants:

View attachment 22245Version 4

Please reply here if you spot any discrepancies or room for improvement.

If any of the terms or relationships in this table are confusing please see @ccw's Towing and Payload Rating Guide which is full of in-depth knowledge.

FOOTNOTES:
  1. These numbers currently reflect 2021 models. I plan to update them to also reflect 2020 and 2022.
  2. Derate options (like the 11400# package) are not shown here and will reduce these numbers proportional to the GVWR in this table versus your derate.
CHANGELOG:
  • V4 - Removed Base Curb Weight and Max Cargo Weight to reduce potential for confusion for now.
This is great and it reflects what is in the tow guidelines....the hitch itself is rated for 21,200 lbs. (2120 tongue weight capacity).....so what limits the machine to 15k??? Underneath it is a F350 in fact I believe the axle on the Tremor is a bit bigger....looks like a 4 inch. The s\Tremor springs are the same between the 250/350....could it be tires??
 

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I’m not 100% sure. The builder on Ford.com allows me to create that combination (while not allowing other combinations) which is why I included it, but I also have not seen one. (I’m guessing it’s for people who are maximizing fuel economy over payload?) It may be worth deleting that column for clarity if nobody is buying them.
3.55:1...it would not let me put in the 4.30:1.....I just want to know what the deal is with the 250 Tremor
 

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This is great and it reflects what is in the tow guidelines....the hitch itself is rated for 21,200 lbs. (2120 tongue weight capacity).....so what limits the machine to 15k??? Underneath it is a F350 in fact I believe the axle on the Tremor is a bit bigger....looks like a 4 inch. The s\Tremor springs are the same between the 250/350....could it be tires??
Quoting myself from another thread earlier today:

The theory I have is that the softer shocks combined with the lack of a rear sway bar and smaller front sway bar result in less stability. Means the trailer has a higher likelihood of pushing the truck around, particularly since the trucks are rated the same for weight distributed and non-weight distributed.

This is emphasized with conventional towing because the tongue weight is so far back.

Thinking on it more, the tires could also contribute. They have plenty of weight capacity, but the taller height and aggressive tread might contribute to less stability, along with the other things I mentioned.
 
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Quoting myself from another thread earlier today:



Thinking on it more, the tires could also contribute. They have plenty of weight capacity, but the taller height and aggressive tread might contribute to less stability, along with the other things I mentioned.

Anecdotal, but I’ve never been in a truck that’s scarier when the trailer starts swaying than this one when towing at capacity.

And I’ve towed ~15k in many a Super Duty before. But never with mud tires. (And never without a rear sway bar I presume.)

So your theories map to the real world impression.

I wouldn’t put 20k on the bumper of this truck more than once even if it was rated for it. 15k is stretching it as is. 12k is at the upper end of comfortable.
 

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Quoting myself from another thread earlier today:



Thinking on it more, the tires could also contribute. They have plenty of weight capacity, but the taller height and aggressive tread might contribute to less stability, along with the other things I mentioned.
I'm going to look at those rear sway bars ...I have the 350 I can look at.....I think the tires are the same between the 250/350 Tremor....but the 20" tires on the standard 350 might be what makes it happen
 

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I'm going to look at those rear sway bars ...I have the 350 I can look at.....I think the tires are the same between the 250/350 Tremor....but the 20" tires on the standard 350 might be what makes it happen
Actually, yep the tires appear to be a pretty significant contributing factor. Taking a look at the towing guide:

1627614305502.png


It can be seen that for 6.7 with 3.55 gears (only gear option for the Tremor) and 6 3/4' bed, there's three footnotes that push the conventional towing capacity down to 15,000 pounds:
  1. (4) 17" tires
  2. (7) Tremor Package
  3. (8) 18" All-Terrain Tires
The two footnotes that allow for the full 20,000 pound capacity:
  1. (1) 18" All-Season Tires
  2. (6) Requires 20" All-Terrain Tires
So it would appear it is mainly based on the tires. 18" wheels can be retained, but only by moving to a less aggressive tire (all season) which would be a more stable tire under load because of the tread. Alternatively, 20" wheels with all-terrain tires reduce the sidewall creating that stability.

I still imagine the shocks and sway bar contribute with the Tremor package, but based on the above I bet the tires are the biggest contributing factor now.
 

2020Tremor

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Anecdotal, but I’ve never been in a truck that’s scarier when the trailer starts swaying than this one when towing at capacity.

And I’ve towed ~15k in many a Super Duty before. But never with mud tires. (And never without a rear sway bar I presume.)

So your theories map to the real world impression.

I wouldn’t put 20k on the bumper of this truck more than once even if it was rated for it. 15k is stretching it as is. 12k is at the upper end of comfortable.
For recent year super duties a rear sway bar is not standard equipment in the SRWs even without the Tremor Package. I do know it comes with the camper package and possibly a few others. When I was looking at trucks before ordering very few standard SRW super duties I looked at had a rear sway bar.
 
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For recent year super duties a rear sway bar is not standard equipment in the SRWs even without the Tremor Package. I do know it comes with the camper package and possibly a few others. When I was looking at trucks before ordering very few standard SRW super duties I looked at had a rear sway bar.

What options/packages add the rear sway bar?
 

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Actually, yep the tires appear to be a pretty significant contributing factor. Taking a look at the towing guide:

View attachment 29092

It can be seen that for 6.7 with 3.55 gears (only gear option for the Tremor) and 6 3/4' bed, there's three footnotes that push the conventional towing capacity down to 15,000 pounds:
  1. (4) 17" tires
  2. (7) Tremor Package
  3. (8) 18" All-Terrain Tires
The two footnotes that allow for the full 20,000 pound capacity:
  1. (1) 18" All-Season Tires
  2. (6) Requires 20" All-Terrain Tires
So it would appear it is mainly based on the tires. 18" wheels can be retained, but only by moving to a less aggressive tire (all season) which would be a more stable tire under load because of the tread. Alternatively, 20" wheels with all-terrain tires reduce the sidewall creating that stability.

I still imagine the shocks and sway bar contribute with the Tremor package, but based on the above I bet the tires are the biggest contributing factor now.
I find it interesting that you can get the 3.55 gears with the 6.7 on the tremor but you can't get them with the 7.3.
 
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