MORE DEPRESSING INSURANCE NEWS

Hate to say it but I am pretty sure all TREMORS have cell or modem technology built in the truck, and Ford gets paid big bucks to foreword that data to your insurance company. If you disable it, it forces an immediate MIL light. Asked the dealer what's up. They said most TREMORS get all of their computer updates over the air using this. And I can confirm this, my truck has never been back to the dealer, but the software version has been updated (different rev number) since I bought the truck. Bad part of this, if a cop points the disable gun at your truck and activates it, throw you $90,000 truck in the garbage. No one will reactivate the systems.

I'm glad we have comedians here in the forum. Mixing known info with a bit of tin-foil winter wear gives me a good belly chuckle.

No one can prove most of what is said above is happening on the daily. Cause if that was possible anyone would see their insurance get dropped or jump another $2k a year cause we all lie to the insurance companies to save a few bucks.
 
It's been in flood plain since before the flood plain was established...Somebody from the government comes along and draws a line on a map and I get charged a ridiculous amount.
What makes it even more ridiculous is the parcel, 70 acres, the cabin sits on appraises for 6x what the cabin does and I have 38% LTV ratio....Straight up corporate robbery.
I am confused why you think a high risk structure on the flood plain should have lower rates on its flood insurance?

If the structure value is low compared to the rate you can always just self insure (pay your premiums into a savings account you don’t touch while you own it).
 
I am confused why you think a high risk structure on the flood plain should have lower rates on its flood insurance?

If the structure value is low compared to the rate you can always just self insure (pay your premiums into a savings account you don’t touch while you own it).
It shouldn't be required at all..The structure predates the eatablishment of the flood plain. Some goverment agency draws a line on a map, probably convinced to do thru an insurance lobby group, and the insurance company gets a bump in rev.
Insurance of any kind is highway robbery these days. You pay thru the nose for years and then when you try to file a claim they push back every chance they get...
US Property and Casualty insurance companies made $88B in profits in '23 most profitable year ever..they made $39B in Q1 of '24..can't wait to see what the total of '24 is...
Data came straight from the North American Association of Insurance Commissioners...
You wont get that info from the network news because State Farm commercials are good source of ad revenue. They just report rates are going up per the OP.

Amazing the profit margin you can get when your product is required by law.
 
It all goes back to Lloyds of London and this presentation that was made not too long ago. The podcast link below tells the story on how we got here.

I'm real interested in knowing how to "self insure" myself. Is it just setting up an account and funding it? Do you need to get approved by your state somehow? Insurance is completely out of control and I don't want to pushed around by them anymore.

 
It shouldn't be required at all..The structure predates the eatablishment of the flood plain.
Do you have to have flood insurance or is it optional and you just wouldn’t be covered in the case of a flood?

Unless I am misunderstanding you are upset you have to pay for a separate flood policy for your structure to be covered by a flood specifically due to its increased likelihood of being in a flood based on its location. Is that correct? Why do you feel you shouldn’t have to pay for this risk?
 
I'm real interested in knowing how to "self insure" myself. Is it just setting up an account and funding it? Do you need to get approved by your state somehow? Insurance is completely out of control and I don't want to pushed around by them anymore.
Most of the time the reason insurance is required is because folks don't own their homes or vehicles outright. You have insurance because the lenders require it so their collateral is protected.

Generally self insuring means you're accepting responsibility for your losses. If your home is paid in full I don't believe you are required to have homeowners insurance. If your vehicle is paid in full I don't believer you are required to have full coverage. BUT if your home burns or you crash your vehicle you're paying to replace or repair out of pocket. You always have to have a degree of auto insurance because you can cause damage to others (I don't know if there is a way you can have a bond or something to show you have the funds to cover damage you caused to others to avoid paying for insurance).
 
Do you have to have flood insurance or is it optional and you just wouldn’t be covered in the case of a flood?

Unless I am misunderstanding you are upset you have to pay for a separate flood policy for your structure to be covered by a flood specifically due to its increased likelihood of being in a flood based on its location. Is that correct? Why do you feel you shouldn’t have to pay for this risk?
I have to have it...I knew the "risk" when I bought the property and I was fine with it. If it gets flooded not like I am going back with block structure from the 40s like what's there now. Its a loss I am willing to take. I was more interested in the parcel than the dwelling.
 
Most of the time the reason insurance is required is because folks don't own their homes or vehicles outright. You have insurance because the lenders require it so their collateral is protected.

Generally self insuring means you're accepting responsibility for your losses. If your home is paid in full I don't believe you are required to have homeowners insurance. If your vehicle is paid in full I don't believer you are required to have full coverage. BUT if your home burns or you crash your vehicle you're paying to replace or repair out of pocket. You always have to have a degree of auto insurance because you can cause damage to others (I don't know if there is a way you can have a bond or something to show you have the funds to cover damage you caused to others to avoid paying for insurance).
You are correct on the home insurance part, once it's paid its you and the taxes. (topic for another day)
Auto insurance is different. Somehow they know if you have insurance or not. I was not able to find the paper copy and the app was too slow to show the proof, the cop checked on his system and said that I was good on that part. So they are getting that information.

Progressive, Geico, SafeCo, State Farm, etc., are just middlemen and paper handlers. I want to know how to get rid of them. I'm probably venting to the wrong crowd, I'll report back if I find something.
 
Several great comments on this thread! I find it a challenge to choose where to start with information. The rating criteria and variables are numerous and complex on both auto and fire (homeowners, condominium / townhouse and renters) policies.

I previously owned a multi-product line insurance agency for 24 years in Colorado. Insurance Agents have a fiduciary responsibility...an equal position of trust between the client and the company. I was an 'Attorney Type of Agent' and not a 'Car Salesman Type of Agent'...and there is a big difference. Furthermore, my clients, the claims office and underwriting department all had this understanding. On several occasions, I used the policy language and wording to force adjusters to settle claims more equitably and fairly for clients...both as an insured and as a claimant with another insurance carrier.

FOUR (4) IMPORTANT CONCEPTS TO KNOW:

- The Principle of Indemnity - Applies to both insureds and claimants. The insurance company is contractually obligated to restore their insured or a claimant back to their original position, not any better and not any worse.
- Insurance is designed to protect the policyholder from Large Catastrophic Losses.
- Diminished Value Compensation - Applies to auto insurance. Used vehicles with prior damage have a lower resale value. The greater the damage, the greater the diminished value (Example: Frame Damage).
- Replacement Cost Value (RCV) vs Actual Cash Value (ACV) - Applies to homeowners insurance.


1. A major and prominent rating variable for both auto and fire products is a 'score' derived from a Risk Model developed by Third Party Actuarial Firms that ties the customer / insured / policyholder appetite for or adversion to credit, debt, etc. to losses. These Risk Models were developed in the 1990's and put into the rating structure around 2000+. Banks and Credit Unions have used Risk Models for making loans, extending credit and interest rate determination for many years. The insurance Risk Models were built using a web of statements and questions and then overlaid with the actual loss data (claims) of millions of policyholders. After that, credit bureau reports were pulled on actual policyholders then adjustments and changes were made by altering, adding or eliminating statements and questions within the risk model. In regards to auto insurance, the Risk Model is a better predictor of future claims verses the past 3 to 5 years of driving history (citations, tickets, claims). Simply put, people who have a high debt load (take risk with money) file more claims. The problem with this rating variable is the inclusion of 'Medical Bill(s) Debt'. Consumers should lobby their state legislators Non-Stop to exclude medical bill(s) debt because it does not fairly assess a person's risk tolerance to debt. Although the details of the Risk Models are 'secret'...proprietary information held by the Third Party Actuarial Firms... the models are 'primarily designed' to reveal debt-to-income ratios; credit card debt / risk tolerance; multiple loans and or high dollar loans on vehicles, boats and other toys.

The main reason for the 180-day claim window: Insurance Companies want to pay and close the claims to avoid future increases in the cost of materials and labor. This applies to both auto and fire claims.

2. Auto Insurance

A. Take a proactive movement to improve your three-digit credit score with the Credit Bureau Agencies (Experian, Equifax and TransUnion). Although this score is not directly tied to the Risk Model used by insurance companies, it is a very good indicator how an individual will score on the Third Party Risk Model used by their insurance company. An 850 score is a 'Perfect Score'. Strive for a consumer credit score above 750, 775 and even 800. All Risk Models are not equal. Risk Models are different between the banking and insurance worlds. Moreover, these risk models will vary between individual banks and individual insurance companies. In addition, the three-digit credit score for any individual can and does vary between the three Credit Bureau Agencies because each company has its own Risk Model.

B. Agree to use the insurance company phone app or device that measures driving habits to reduce your premiums. State Farm calls their program 'Drive Safe & Save'. State Farm advertises discounts range between 10% and 30%. However, up to a 50% discount is possible, but rarely applicable. Just know most State Farm Agents will never reveal up to a 50% discount is 'possible'...probably because it is mostly unrealistic. In addition, not all discounts may be available in all states or might vary between different states. The app or device measures habits, mainly speeding, hard braking, driving frequency, mileage, etc.

C. Move to Timbuktu......move to a remote and sparsely populated area! The last time I checked, Wyoming is the most sparsely populated state and Niobrara County is the least populated county in Wyoming. There are places in other states too. Check Out counties in Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, eastern Montana, central Nevada along U.S. Highway 50.....hey you'd be north of @Optimus.

D. Nothing wrong with accepting a used OEM part from a salvage yard. It is a better alternative than an aftermarket part. Besides, your damaged vehicle is 'used' and no longer new.

E. For the most part, RCV (or the general concept) is not used in the settlement of auto claims. ACV is applied at the time of loss. There have been exceptions, especially in the recent past when vehicle supply was scarce resulting in inflated values.

F. Uninsured / Underinsured Motorist (UM / UIM) Bodily Injury is definitely a "can of worms". No state can provide accurate numbers because the numbers / percentage of drivers without insurance are derived from citations written by law enforcement officers to drivers who cannot produce Evidence of Insurance on the scene. Many, if not most of these drivers actually have insurance and failed to place the Evidence of Insurance Cards in their vehicle at each renewal cycle. Some law enforcement departments now use outside third party sources to obtain proof of insurance. The State of Colorado requires insurance companies to submit lists of current insureds. The Department of Motor Vehicles then matches up their registration / license plates with the insurance list.

G. Liability Bodily Injury / Personal Injury Claims - Thanks to the lawyers, there are no adequate adjectives to describe this big mess. The abuse, fraud and dare I say outright theft here is astounding! In addition, the insurance companies do very little but raise rates.

Is auto insurance a scam? IMO, mostly legitimate and partly a scam. It is a highly regulated industry. The Auto Insurance Scam and Racket primarily consists of four 'actors' / 'players' - insurance companies; personal injury lawyers; criminals 'staging' auto crashes (insurance fraud); and chiropractors. I could discuss all four 'actors' at great length...and it all has a negative impact on rates. Staged Auto Crashes - very low risk and high reward. Fraud involves Misrepresentation which is difficult to impossible to prove. In the end, the insurance company executives and actuaries are only reactive...raise premiums and do nothing proactive.

3. Homeowners Insurance - the weather in recent years / decades has taken a toll on the cost of homeowners insurance with forest fires and hail being the main perils (causes of loss) for claims filed. Not much we can do about the weather. However, insurance consumers can react proactively in other ways ------->

A. When I left the insurance industry, there were four (4) types of homeowner's policies. 1. Basic Form (HO-1); Broad Form (HO-2); Special Form (HO-3); and Comprehensive Form (HO-5). The HO-4 and HO-6 forms are for Renters and Condominium / Townhouse respectively. There might be and probably are additional policy types in the market now. The HO-3 Special Form and HO-5 Comprehensive Form both contain all of the "bells and whistles"...and therefore, are expensive. Although the HO-1 and HO-2 policies came on the scene in the 1950's, it might be a good time to revisit and consider these policy types. These are both no nonsense policy types that will provide protection form large catastrophic losses if RCV is available on both Coverage A - Dwelling and Coverage C - Personal Property (Coverage B with some companies). Contact your agent and inquire about these policy types, but only consider if RCV is available and can be added via endorsement.

B. Regardless of Policy Type...ask for quotes on $5,000, $10,000 or a higher deductible.

C. Purchase a smaller home.

D. Build a home underground with secret entrances and Self-Insure.

E. @Openroad - a homeowner's policyholder can potentially extend the 180-day claim window for repairs. They must contact (in writing) their insurance company and provide a valid reason for the extension. However, the company is not obligated to grant an extension unless there are compelling circumstances. Valid reasons for extension --------->
- Unexpected delays in obtaining building permits or materials
- Severe weather conditions hindering repairs
- Contractor issues or disputes
- Unforeseen complications during the repair process

F. Hire a Public Adjuster / Private Adjuster. A Public Adjuster or Private Adjuster is a professional insurance claims handler and claims adjuster who advocates for the insurance policyholder in appraising and negotiating a claimant's insurance claim. In Colorado, there were two LARGE CATASTROPHIC LOSSES caused by fire: 2012 - The Waldo Canyon Fire; and 2013 - The Black Forest Fire. I witnessed first-hand insurance companies not adhering to The Principle of Indemnity. Insured's fought back by hiring their own Private Adjuster, especially after the 2013 event. Example, I heard of a claim in the original amount of $17,000.00 was later settled for $234,000.00. A good portion of this was the result of REPLACEMENT of certain types of Personal Property like furniture and clothing instead of by loss mitigation via property restoration. It is my understanding loss restoration services do not completely remove the smoke, char, soot, etc. particles from clothing and furniture. Never accept this type of claim settlement from an insurance adjuster. ALWAYS DEMAND to be INDEMNIFIED and only ACCEPT Replacement Cost Value (RCV).

Finally, if a claim appears to be unfair (the adjuster not adhering to the Principle of Indemnity), contact your agent. If your agent ignores you or fails to step in and advocate on your behalf, then contact the Department or Division of Insurance in your state. If you want to make noise and roll some heads this is certainly a way to accomplish that goal.
 
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I believe the repercussions from this fire event in California will be significant. I read that it will be the most costly natural disaster to date in the country.
 
I believe the repercussions from this fire event in California will be significant. I read that it will be the most costly natural disaster to date in the country.
I definitely believe the same, the hurricanes this summer are miniscule compared to the ripple effect this fire will have on all insurance products for the next 20+ years.
 
Please keep the politics out of the discussion. Thank you!
 
Some of the comments earlier about escrow are potentially misleading. Just wanted to clarify there is no direct cost to escrow it is just for money handling to split your major bills (insurance and property taxes) into monthly payments. The bank does not charge fees for this but they do it as insurance on the bills getting paid on time when you have a mortgage. Yes if you overpay there is money sitting there for next year, but it doesn’t technically cost you anything.

You don’t save any money by skipping escrow other than you can determine when the bills get paid and could make a little interest through the year if you want. I suppose in this current interest rate climate you could make about 2% on average over 12 months which is $200 on 10K. If it is worth the hassle to you, go for it. When savings rates were below 1% it was definitely not worth the hassle.

As for the cost of insurance, yeah that’s the inflationary cost a lot of people have been ignoring. Now that home prices are flat and interest rates are still insane, people are really going to feel the squeeze on renewals.
 
I'm glad we have comedians here in the forum. Mixing known info with a bit of tin-foil winter wear gives me a good belly chuckle.

No one can prove most of what is said above is happening on the daily. Cause if that was possible anyone would see their insurance get dropped or jump another $2k a year cause we all lie to the insurance companies to save a few bucks.
Tin foil hats? Sometimes, for sure…

But in this case it’s not BS conjecture. Here’s a link (below) to the Texas versus GM lawsuit. It’s worth a read.

If insurance companies dropped all of the people who drive like idiots they wouldn’t have enough customers to keep the lights on, but all insurance rates have gone up dramatically over the last five years. Some more than others. (Nobody in my household has had an accident or a moving violation in over 30 years, but my rates have still jumped.)

There are too many impaired and uninsured and unlicensed drivers, people are getting faster and dumber, and all repair and medical costs have jumped in cost, so the insurance cost increase is no surprise. They have to cover cost increases. My questions are 1) Is the overall insurance cost increase proportional to those costs, and 2) is it disproportionately felt by people with more aggressive driving behaviors and poor credit ratings? I’m betting the answer to both questions is yes.

I suppose it’s possible Ford isn’t doing the same thing as GM, but I’d be shocked if Ford left that kind of money on the table while GM got rich.

There’s a reason Ford wants buyers to load the Ford app, and it’s not to benefit us…

Texas sues GM for selling customer data
 

F. Uninsured / Underinsured Motorist (UM / UIM) Bodily Injury is definitely a "can of worms". No state can provide accurate numbers because the numbers / percentage of drivers without insurance are derived from citations written by law enforcement officers to drivers who cannot produce Evidence of Insurance on the scene. Many, if not most of these drivers actually have insurance and failed to place the Evidence of Insurance Cards in their vehicle at each renewal cycle. Some law enforcement departments now use outside third party sources to obtain proof of insurance. The State of Colorado requires insurance companies to submit lists of current insureds. The Department of Motor Vehicles then matches up their registration / license plates with the insurance list.
Thanks for your very complete post. Lots of good information there. I’m responding only to Section F above.

In my state there are two insurance-related offenses:
1) Failure to carry proof (of financial responsibility) and
2) Driving Uninsured.

The former covers the situation in which the vehicle is covered, but the person doesn’t have proof of the coverage with him. The latter is a much more serious offense which can result in license suspension. Because of the seriousness of the penalty for being uninsured, cops will often charge the “Fail to Carry”. They also often issue warnings instead of a citation if the person’s driving record isn’t bad. This happens more due to the increasing hatred for cops, as many cops figure the difference between a warning and a citation isn’t worth getting a complaint.

Finally, measuring incidence of driving while suspended or uninsured based upon citation/conviction rate is like measuring changes in deer population based on hunter success rates: it works okay if the number of hunters and other conditions remain the same over time, but if there are no deer kills when no hunters are allowed into an area it doesn’t mean the deer population has gone to zero.

In my state, the total number of state troopers has been reduced by about 30% over 45 years while the state population has increased by over 30%. At the same time the diversity of trooper assignments and the required administrative work and paperwork has more than tripled, so troopers patrol highways much less. The willingness to work overtime has also evaporated with the latest generation, so even if nothing else had changed the State would need over 1100 troopers to cover the shifts that used to be covered by 1000… The net result of this combination is patrol coverage of about 20% of 1979 levels, with a workload that’s dramatically higher. (My wife and I recently traveled to the other side of the state. On a six hour interstate trip we saw only one trooper. In contrast, when we drove north through Vermont, a state smaller than most of our counties, we saw a trooper every 12 miles for much of the trip.) It really is like the deer-hunting example: no troopers on patrol means no citations. (And slower response to rural crime, car-jacking, road-rage, etc.) I’m not complaining, as our citizens get to decide the government services they don’t want, but it sure does skew all kinds of data comparisons.
 
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I believe the repercussions from this fire event in California will be significant. I read that it will be the most costly natural disaster to date in the country.
I'm sure CA policies in that region are gonna go up alot, but the rest of the nation shouldn't subsidize the risk of living there. Here is CO we've already gotten hammered in this area due to the Marshall Fire in 2021' and lots of hail claims over the last number of years. You pay for the risks where you live, someone Iowa shouldn't subsidize CA wildfire claims or FL hurricane claims. IMHO.
 
I'm sure CA policies in that region are gonna go up alot, but the rest of the nation shouldn't subsidize the risk of living there. Here is CO we've already gotten hammered in this area due to the Marshall Fire in 2021' and lots of hail claims over the last number of years. You pay for the risks where you live, someone Iowa shouldn't subsidize CA wildfire claims or FL hurricane claims. IMHO.
Your absolutely correct in the part that we shouldn't subsidize, but we will and always have. Hurricanes 🌀 included.
 
Not USAA even after the new 2 fidy
 
Not USAA even after the new 2 fidy
Just wait, I've had USAA 50 years, no claims in 35 years. 30 % increase last 4 years, home and vehicle.
 
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