Surviving COVID

[shoholasmokin]

Gotta say @shoholasmokin, everything surrounding this virus is what is important, not the fact that one can contract a disease that has a 99.7% survival rate. What necessity is a vaccine for a virus that doesn't kill most people? The answer is $$$; the companies creating them are to make billions.

Many "world leaders" are saying nothing is going back to what it was before. This is akin to a 9/11 on a global scale and things are going to change and a "new normal" will emerge, has emerged. I'm apprehensive concerning the future and what the government is going to force us to do. I see in the not too distant future the only freedom we'll have in the US, if there is one, will be simply slavery. Most will become cogs in the machine, assets that require management by the few elite important with all the power.

I share your views on big government. But if people just keep following the herd and if media does not let you see dissenting points of view, eventually most will succumb to believing what they are being told. Its called propaganda and it has played a major role most notably with Mao in China and of course Germany.

It is so important to think critically and challenge what you are told. Seek out differing points of view so that you can form your own opinions (getting harder and harder to do with the monotone media - I know).

Just in full disclosure, I have an undergrad in Chemical Engineering, so I have a fairly good understanding of data, science, and testing hypotheses. I have a masters from the Univ of Penn, where I studied human dynamics within organizations. I spent almost 20 years working in big pharma and another 20 working with pharmaceutical companies and still help companies bring new products to market and solve some pretty big challenges. I still do this today.

When I started in pharma, I worked for Johnson and Johnson, the president of the company was James Burke and he was a strong advocate of the JnJ Credo which stated basically (paraphrasing):

Our first responsibility is to the patients, doctors and nurses, to mothers and fathers and all others who use our products and services.

Second - we are responsible to our employees who work with us throughout the world.

Third - we are responsible to the communities in which we live and work.

And if we do all of these things right the stockholders would realize a fair return.

Burke earned the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2000.

The values embodied in the credo have never left me - although I would agree with you that these values may not be embodied by the industry as a whole today. And that is sad. That being said, I do get the opportunity to work with some really fantastic people who are passionate about patients than profits.

I am going to shut up now.

 

[Pompey]

When we were hit by the first wave, our federal government shut down our international borders. Personally, I think they should have done it sooner. Even so, we were I think the first country in the world to call it a pandemic and were actually criticised for doing so. Later the UN through the WHO did so. The WHO were very slow to react, it was said at the time they were beholden to China but their actions, or inactions, seem to have been forgotten.

After our international borders were shut, it was up to the individual state and territory governments to manage the virus. Mistakes were made, tragic mistakes but I guess no one was used to dealing with such a situation.

In my state, we went into a lockdown for a short period. It wasn’t as severe a lockdown as we saw in Europe. I did though lose my job, because our company was heavily exposed to the US market, which collapsed. A 4 square metre rule was introduced and remained until recently, although its still in place in some areas.

Hotel quarantine was introduced for people returning from overseas. Contact tracing became a vital part of confining the disease. My state is considered the best in the country at this. Another state, Victoria, stuffed things up completely. They had very poor security at the hotels. Rather than use police and the army, like every other state, they used private security only. The guards had almost no training, refused to use hand sanitiser because of religious beliefs ( alcohol) and even had sex with those in lockdown. This led to a second wave which spread to my state. However, because we had excellent contact tracing the spread was contained, while in Victoria the disease spread far and wide.

Our experience shows that closing the international borders, isolating returning travellers, social distancing and first rate contact tracing can control the virus. Except for Victoria masks have never been compulsory. But if you don’t get on top of the contract tracing early, it becomes impossible as they get overwhelmed. Contact tracing means that if you go to say restaurant or something, you either scan a QR code, leave your name and phone number and enter it into the system. Or just write it down on a sheet.

Do all of that properly, and you can lead a near normal life, go to work or somewhere for pleasure and keep the virus under control. We were fortunate that our state government learned quickly from its mistakes and got on top of both the health and economic problems better than anywhere else in the country.

 

[Driftwood]

I've been at work 3+ days a week since Covid19 hit. I guess IT = essential workers

 

[JC_Tremor]

You’re doing it right then. the CEO and CFO of the company I work for (fortune 200) went to the office every single day since the pandemic hit. They were the only ones.

They're doing it wrong...The CEO for our company has been in his mansion office the entire time until a vaccine comes out. Must be nice. Meanwhile us "essential mutts" are out here among the disease and carriers braving it all to keep the lights on.

 

[Trämör]

Seriously though, why does no one find my joke funny? (Typical German problem - no one gets our jokes. Or we’re just not funny)

 

[JC_Tremor]

Seriously though, why does no one find my joke funny? (Typical German problem - no one gets our jokes. Or we’re just not funny)

Different strokes for different folks? Sore subject? Too real and true to be funny? Long winded? Not sure...

 

[PapaRaptor]

Seriously though, why does no one find my joke funny? (Typical German problem - no one gets our jokes. Or we’re just not funny)

My wifey works at a German company and is the only American there. Their jokes are dry humor that we don't understand. Different way of thinking. In fact the jokes are so bad that we laugh at them. Maybe thats the point.

 

[Pompey]

Seriously though, why does no one find my joke funny? (Typical German problem - no one gets our jokes. Or we’re just not funny)

I remember watching a spoof of a tv news channel. You know how they run at the bottom of the screen news headlines? Well, one went across the screen “German and non German share the same joke”.

For me, I find the British have the best sense of humour based on what I see on tv. While I don’t find US stand up comedy amusing, I found on you tube a compilation of jokes told by Ronald Reagan and found them hilarious. He has a great ability to tell jokes. Well I think so anyway. I guess we’re all different in what we find funny.

 

[shoholasmokin]

I've been at work 3+ days a week since Covid19 hit. I guess IT = essential workers

you bet they are!

 

[shoholasmokin]

Seriously though, why does no one find my joke funny? (Typical German problem - no one gets our jokes. Or we’re just not funny)

Because we Americans have been conditioned not to say or laugh at anything that may be construed by anyone as racist, sexist, or otherwise generally not politically correct. God forbid you put something in writing - it will be dug up days, weeks, months or even years later and someone will fire you, deny you a promotion or otherwise use it against you. It's kind of like the whole world is your wife. When she is in a funk, a couple of years from now, and you say "Honey what's the matter?" and she says "Remember 2 years ago when your bought your Tremor? Well you didn't even ask me what color I liked"

 

[shoholasmokin]

When we were hit by the first wave, our federal government shut down our international borders. Personally, I think they should have done it sooner. Even so, we were I think the first country in the world to call it a pandemic and were actually criticised for doing so. Later the UN through the WHO did so. The WHO were very slow to react, it was said at the time they were beholden to China but their actions, or inactions, seem to have been forgotten.

After our international borders were shut, it was up to the individual state and territory governments to manage the virus. Mistakes were made, tragic mistakes but I guess no one was used to dealing with such a situation.

In my state, we went into a lockdown for a short period. It wasn’t as severe a lockdown as we saw in Europe. I did though lose my job, because our company was heavily exposed to the US market, which collapsed. A 4 square metre rule was introduced and remained until recently, although its still in place in some areas.

Hotel quarantine was introduced for people returning from overseas. Contact tracing became a vital part of confining the disease. My state is considered the best in the country at this. Another state, Victoria, stuffed things up completely. They had very poor security at the hotels. Rather than use police and the army, like every other state, they used private security only. The guards had almost no training, refused to use hand sanitiser because of religious beliefs ( alcohol) and even had sex with those in lockdown. This led to a second wave which spread to my state. However, because we had excellent contact tracing the spread was contained, while in Victoria the disease spread far and wide.

Our experience shows that closing the international borders, isolating returning travellers, social distancing and first rate contact tracing can control the virus. Except for Victoria masks have never been compulsory. But if you don’t get on top of the contract tracing early, it becomes impossible as they get overwhelmed. Contact tracing means that if you go to say restaurant or something, you either scan a QR code, leave your name and phone number and enter it into the system. Or just write it down on a sheet.

Do all of that properly, and you can lead a near normal life, go to work or somewhere for pleasure and keep the virus under control. We were fortunate that our state government learned quickly from its mistakes and got on top of both the health and economic problems better than anywhere else in the country.

So here in the US we started hearing "something" about COVID in Jan 2020. Health officials may have known more than they let on earlier. Meanwhile - if my memory serves me correctly - the WHO was downplaying the whole thing. People have pointed fingers as if there was this incredible body of knowledge about COVID and how fast it was likely to spread. Again unless there is a whole lot of info I am not aware of, and remember there were a lot of "experts" sending a lot of mixed messages, I do not know how we could have responded any faster. We stopped travel (with the exception of American citizens and residents returning home) from China on 1/31. From JHU on 1/29 the data shows COVID largely contained within China:

It wasn't until 1/31 where the data shows something is going on in the US and Oz (again from JHU). I really do not know how you respond faster than that - unless you close your borders anytime someone in China sneezes?

If you go to https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/animated-world-map you can watch day by day how fast this thing has spread.

 

[jlcichocki]

I don’t want to respond to this topic because it’s too personal, but I can’t ignore all the comments any longer. I practice anesthesia for a living. I’m not the smartest guy by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, but I have been on the front lines and have intimate knowledge of what it’s really like. I’ve been in healthcare for 30 years. This period of time reminds me when AIDS was first diagnosed, that was a certain death sentence and everyone in healthcare was scared to death. This has everyone scared because it’s like Russian roulette. Yes, only 0.3% die but how do you roll the dice and decide if you are on the correct side of the percentage game.

Thankfully most people survive just fine. But for the ones that don’t, it’s an awful fucking death. Struggling to breath every breath while your organs slowly shut down is terrible. What’s more terrible is they all die ALONE. Holding a strangers hand while their family watches them die on FaceTime is gut wrenching.

The CDC and WHO have been a colossal disappointment. The decision making has been 2-3 weeks behind what is actually happening in the real world. Then when they direct, the messages have been vague and at times confusing. I don’t participate in social media and you need to be careful believing everything, but it has been a much better dissemination of frontline info.

Contrary to your statement, masks do work!! But they are not the only piece of protection. If you don‘t wash your hands, social distance when possible, etc, etc. You will still be at risk. This is why Fauci didn’t want to advocate for masks initially, he didn’t want people to think it was a get out of jail free card.

I will say that wearing an N95 for 12-16 hours a day is exhausting. Not to mention, after a day or two when your face is bleeding from the mask, that’s a whole other level of fun.

We have been amazingly vigilant in our practices. We have yet to trace an employee’s positive test to a clinical exposure. So the science does work.

Eventually, we will likely all get it. Sadly. The real issue is can we spread out the really sick 0.3% enough to get through it. Here are real world numbers. Last year, my little hospital used 192 N95 masks for the entire year, most of that was for fit testing which is an annual requirement. In the third week in March, when COVID starting showing itself in WI, we used over 500 in a week! We get our supply allocations based on our previous years usage. Needless to say, we have struggled every day since this started protect our staff with enough PPE.

I won’t get into numbers such as how many hospital beds are needed, much less ICU beds. How many ventilators, etc, etc. Even if we had enough equipment to manage, we don‘t have enough staff. This 0.3% are some of the sickest patients I have dealt with in all my years. These patients do best when we place them in the prone position. It takes a team of 6 to turn these patients over when they have a bunch of IV medicines running, a breathing tube, urine catheter, and maybe a few other tubes. And if, God forbid, one of those tubes comes out while rolling them over, they likely die before you turn them back over again.

Oh, and one more set of numbers before I end my rant, which I apologize. My hospital is the only hospital in our rural county. In the entire county, we have space for 21 bodies at any one time. We have barely stayed ahead of burying the dead. What happens when the ground freezes and nobody will accept and hold a COVID positive body? Do you want your mom stored in the back a freezer semi like we saw in NY. That’s too real for me.

This forum as been a wonderful escape for me. I‘ve learned a lot and enjoyed the banter. I hope you all stay safe and well, and on the correct side on 99.7%. FWIW I will happily accept the vaccine when it’s available.

jeff

 

[Pompey]

So here in the US we started hearing "something" about COVID in Jan 2020. Health officials may have known more than they let on earlier. Meanwhile - if my memory serves me correctly - the WHO was downplaying the whole thing. People have pointed fingers as if there was this incredible body of knowledge about COVID and how fast it was likely to spread. Again unless there is a whole lot of info I am not aware of, and remember there were a lot of "experts" sending a lot of mixed messages, I do not know how we could have responded any faster. We stopped travel (with the exception of American citizens and residents returning home) from China on 1/31. From JHU on 1/29 the data shows COVID largely contained within China:

View attachment 10250

It wasn't until 1/31 where the data shows something is going on in the US and Oz (again from JHU). I really do not know how you respond faster than that - unless you close your borders anytime someone in China sneezes?

View attachment 10251

If you go to https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/animated-world-map you can watch day by day how fast this thing has spread.

I think it would be better if that did infection rates as well as infection totals. I remember hearing about the virus last year. There was talk about the lockdown in China and how they could only do lockdowns in countries like China! That’s about when I thought we should have gone into lockdown, as Taiwan did. Victoria really is to blame for our second wave. Just that one state has had more deaths than the rest of the country put together 7 times over. It was a lesson for everyone. 2 neighbouring states, one got everything wrong, the other the standard for others to achieve.

 

[Denali]

It wasn’t the worst cold I’ve ever had.

 

[Pompey]

I hear that all going well, the China virus will be officially eradicated in my state in 5 days. Fingers crossed.

 

[shoholasmokin]

@jlcichocki - I think we are saying the same thing. Masks could work if they are the right type and they are fitted properly, however bandanas and these scraps of non-woven fabric that most people are wearing are not effective.

And yes, just about everyone will contract the virus at some point - this virus will run its course. Its really a matter of how well we are equipped to deal with increasing survival rates either through improved therapeutics or vaccines.

While I haven't contracted COVID yet, I did have a very nasty experience with black mold a few years ago to the point where just getting out of bed in the morning would leave me gasping. Luckily, I was living in France at the time, and had some of the world's best healthcare available to me. And no it wasn't socialized medicine but through a private insurance policy that cost me probably 1/10 of what plans in the US cost. At first they thought it was asthma but they listened to me and checked me for mold. Once they confirmed that it was the mold, I literally had a shopping bag of medicines and flushes to treat it.

 

[JC_Tremor]

Sorry guys, I look at it this way. If people are allowed to live the way they want, let me do the same.

If I get it and die, then it was meant to be. If I get it and live or never get it, it was meant to be. Live and let live. Living in fear is not living. My trust is not in man or in the fear man creates to control the masses.

 

[shoholasmokin]

Sorry guys, I look at it this way. If people are allowed to live the way they want, let me do the same.

If I get it and die, then it was meant to be. If I get it and live or never get it, it was meant to be. Live and let live. Living in fear is not living. My trust is not in man or in the fear man creates to control the masses.

Amen

 

[jlcichocki]

Sorry guys, I look at it this way. If people are allowed to live the way they want, let me do the same.

If I get it and die, then it was meant to be. If I get it and live or never get it, it was meant to be. Live and let live. Living in fear is not living. My trust is not in man or in the fear man creates to control the masses.

I actually like what you say and agree on some level. I have said from the start, lockdown wasn’t needed if everyone would do their part. The problem is, 80% of the country doesn’t want to be a part of the team. If everyone would spend the same effort helping the ”cause” as they do waving their constitutional rights this would be over. There are places in the world that are winning based on scientific practices.

I probably hear 5 times per week. “OMG, I was wrong.” “This is way worse than I thought it would be.” “I never thought I would actually get it.“ “I can’t breath, help me.”

It’s heartbreaking. Of course we help everyone without question or reservation. And should you get it and it’s bad, God forbid, we will be there with the doors open.

 

[JC_Tremor]

I actually like what you say and agree on some level. I have said from the start, lockdown wasn’t needed if everyone would do their part. The problem is, 80% of the country doesn’t want to be a part of the team. If everyone would spend the same effort helping the ”cause” as they do waving their constitutional rights this would be over. There are places in the world that are winning based on scientific practices.

I probably hear 5 times per week. “OMG, I was wrong.” “This is way worse than I thought it would be.” “I never thought I would actually get it.“ “I can’t breath, help me.”

It’s heartbreaking. Of course we help everyone without question or reservation. And should you get it and it’s bad, God forbid, we will be there with the doors open.

I'm unsure if I am misunderstanding you or not but what you're saying is exactly what I'm against. I hate it when others assume I'm supposed to do my part for the "team." What team? You're also assuming I believe what the government is telling us is the truth. Do you also believe in Climate Change? It's ok to believe it, fear it, whatever you want to do, but don't force me to comply. Don't force me to sacrifice my freedoms because you are scared and "science" has dictated to you what is right in your/their eyes. I've yet to see anyone who has contracted covid. I've yet to hear about anyone who has had it. I've heard nothing but stories, anecdotal evidence if you will. I've yet to see or know of anyone who has died from nothing but covid. I'm unafraid. I'd prefer to get covid 10 times over than sacrifice my freedoms.

What's heartbreaking is that people are 100% willing to force others, for the good of the people, to comply. It's only gonna get worse as globalists are pushing this "unity" BS and the youth are buying into it. Future looks very grim to me.