Project Shadowfax

Hi CCW, I'm considering the Gatorback mudflaps on my new SD Tremor. The other option is probably just the Ford OEM flaps. Are you still liking the Gatorbacks after a full winter on ShadowFox?

I'm not planning on 37's any time soon, but I'm curious if you think you could run 37's with them.

Also curious if you think they might get hung up on rocks or debris if traveling over some rough stuff. Or if chains mounted on 35's might tear up the mudflaps.

Seems like a lot of work to install those flaps - but they do seem like a superior product compared to the OEM mudflaps. . My dealer said they would install them if I so desired (at their standard hourly labor rate).
Hey! I am still liking them! I've had some positive indicators that they help with keeping stuff off the sides of the truck, but nothing definitive. Start with this post and you can see some discussion around it that ensued:


No question I still love the look of them. I do still think about the little plastic clips holding the rubber on, but they have held up thus far to my use and pressure washing.

I've had the truck with the Gatorbacks on some pretty rough forest roads, as well as deep snow with no issues, though I most definitely haven't been rock crawling. Like any mud flap, I imagine it's possible to reverse into a ledge or rock large enough to pin the flap between the tire and the ledge/rock and rip it off. But that's a pretty significant obstacle when you think of how tall and vertical it would need to be.

Unfortunately I can't say if they will rub with 37" tires. I swear I've seen some folks around the forum use 37's together with Gatorbacks without issue, but a cursory search doesn't bring up anything so I could be remembering wrong.

Snow chains on factory size tires (roughly 35" tall) I'm 100% confident they work, as I've done it myself! 7mm square link.

Post here with details on the snow chains and install:


Post here when I used them in deep snow with the tire chains, with no issues with the mud flaps:


Hope that helps!
 
Hey! I am still liking them! I've had some positive indicators that they help with keeping stuff off the sides of the truck, but nothing definitive. Start with this post and you can see some discussion around it that ensued:


No question I still love the look of them. I do still think about the little plastic clips holding the rubber on, but they have held up thus far to my use and pressure washing.

I've had the truck with the Gatorbacks on some pretty rough forest roads, as well as deep snow with no issues, though I most definitely haven't been rock crawling. Like any mud flap, I imagine it's possible to reverse into a ledge or rock large enough to pin the flap between the tire and the ledge/rock and rip it off. But that's a pretty significant obstacle when you think of how tall and vertical it would need to be.

Unfortunately I can't say if they will rub with 37" tires. I swear I've seen some folks around the forum use 37's together with Gatorbacks without issue, but a cursory search doesn't bring up anything so I could be remembering wrong.

Snow chains on factory size tires (roughly 35" tall) I'm 100% confident they work, as I've done it myself! 7mm square link.

Post here with details on the snow chains and install:


Post here when I used them in deep snow with the tire chains, with no issues with the mud flaps:


Hope that helps!
Terrific info! thanks...going to sleep will consider more tomorrow. GN!
 
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Time for a quick update on the Toyo ATIII’s. They continue their “meh” streak!

36,000 miles in and they are now slippery in the wet. Will have a fresh measurement soon, but at 31,000 miles they had 11/32” of tread left.

Been kind of fun doing burnouts and fishtailing as it rains, but shows their wet grip has degraded noticeably.

I don’t consider this a fault of the tire, and aligns with my past experience with DuraTracs. It just reinforces that, to me, they are another all terrain tire. Nothing to write home about, with worse than 3PMS DuraTrac performance in winter (though still decent).
 
Time for a quick update on the Toyo ATIII’s. They continue their “meh” streak!

36,000 miles in and they are now slippery in the wet. Will have a fresh measurement soon, but at 31,000 miles they had 11/32” of tread left.

Been kind of fun doing burnouts and fishtailing as it rains, but shows their wet grip has degraded noticeably.

I don’t consider this a fault of the tire, and aligns with my past experience with DuraTracs. It just reinforces that, to me, they are another all terrain tire. Nothing to write home about, with worse than 3PMS DuraTrac performance in winter (though still decent).
So what do you think you'll try next? Falken Wildpeaks perhaps??
 
So what do you think you'll try next? Falken Wildpeaks perhaps??
I’m between those and the DuraTrac RT’s. Falkens for their wet/snow reputation. DuraTracs because of my past history with them, but dampened by the fact the RT’s are, ultimately, a different tire than the regular DuraTracs.

I figure I have 2-3 years left on the Toyo’s at their current wear rate and my current mileage, so still have time to decide.
 
I’m between those and the DuraTrac RT’s. Falkens for their wet/snow reputation. DuraTracs because of my past history with them, but dampened by the fact the RT’s are, ultimately, a different tire than the regular DuraTracs.

I figure I have 2-3 years left on the Toyo’s at their current wear rate and my current mileage, so still have time to decide.
Yikes, you are a braver man than me! Living over by Issaquah .... Fishtailing in a sedan or even my 4R is one thing (and I don't like it) but I'd get nervous quick if my diesel Tremor started sliding. Maybe I'm just not comfortable with the "road feedback" (or lack thereof) in my new Tremor vs. my older smaller vehicles...

Hey, maybe you have an excuse to get some full-on snow tires to get you through the winters while your "slip, slidin' away" AT III's get fully used up in the warmer seasons. I'd love to hear your winter tire reviews! How long will it take you to put on another 30,000 miles?

On the note of winter tires, this winter I put a set of studded Nokian Hakkawhatchamacallits on my 4R with the intent of making it my dedicated vehicle for snow sports. Admittedly I did not really "need" them, but I wanted to see what they could deliver.

I have quite a bit of experience driving in snow and ice, being from Michigan and having graduated from MTU in da' U.P. of Michigan back when snowfall records were set..... In any event the studded Nokians were AMAZING. The best description I can offer is that they were like velcro.

During one of our rare snow events last winter I went up to "The Pass" to snowboard with my adult daughter (at my age and broken down condition I had no business doing that, but a Dad's got to do what a Dad's got to do..). I-90 conditions were very bad. At that point of the winter, our "wonderful" WSDOT had closed the highway many times...which probably isn't actually an indication of how bad it was, but I digress.

Conditions were temps in the 20's, deep fresh snow, some ice, deeper snow in the far left lane but less ice and almost no traffic. Trucks took over most of the two right lanes (partly due to chaining up) cars mixed in the second lane and in the third lane (not that lane lines were visible...). I don't recall exactly, but traffic was probably mostly 25-30 mph, maybe a little faster in places in the 3rd lane. I had no problem safely driving "much faster" and perhaps more safely, in the mostly unused far left lane. It's been a while, but I was probably going 55 mph and I varied my speed mostly based on my assessment of the risk of vehicles to my right becoming a risk. I could have safely driven faster. My biggest concern was someone in the right lane pulling out in front of me. Granted, studded tires are NOT what I'd put on the vehicle if I needed it to for lots of miles around town on the "wetside"....and I don't think you would want them on your Wet-Side truck either. But, I'd love to hear how that tire performs without studs in similar conditions...maybe you can run a test for us?
 
Yikes, you are a braver man than me! Living over by Issaquah .... Fishtailing in a sedan or even my 4R is one thing (and I don't like it) but I'd get nervous quick if my diesel Tremor started sliding. Maybe I'm just not comfortable with the "road feedback" (or lack thereof) in my new Tremor vs. my older smaller vehicles...
lol! I suppose it comes from my first vehicle being a 2WD F-150 with used tires and living with that East of the mountains, where there’s often consistent snow for multiple months every winter. That truck spun out and fishtailed just looking at the snow.

FWIW, I’m also regularly testing my wet traction when there’s safe opportunities.

(My first opportunity in winter I get a good, intentional slide with whatever I’m driving that winter to remind myself how it behaves.)

That’s how I know the comparison point here. It’s gone from “I can only slide the back end if I drive it like a sports car and punch the throttle at the right moment” to “if I take a roundabout aggressively the rear end may step out a touch” (both in the wet, not the dry).


Hey, maybe you have an excuse to get some full-on snow tires to get you through the winters while your "slip, slidin' away" AT III's get fully used up in the warmer seasons. I'd love to hear your winter tire reviews! How long will it take you to put on another 30,000 miles?

On the note of winter tires, this winter I put a set of studded Nokian Hakkawhatchamacallits on my 4R with the intent of making it my dedicated vehicle for snow sports. Admittedly I did not really "need" them, but I wanted to see what they could deliver.

I have quite a bit of experience driving in snow and ice, being from Michigan and having graduated from MTU in da' U.P. of Michigan back when snowfall records were set..... In any event the studded Nokians were AMAZING. The best description I can offer is that they were like velcro.

During one of our rare snow events last winter I went up to "The Pass" to snowboard with my adult daughter (at my age and broken down condition I had no business doing that, but a Dad's got to do what a Dad's got to do..). I-90 conditions were very bad. At that point of the winter, our "wonderful" WSDOT had closed the highway many times...which probably isn't actually an indication of how bad it was, but I digress.

Conditions were temps in the 20's, deep fresh snow, some ice, deeper snow in the far left lane but less ice and almost no traffic. Trucks took over most of the two right lanes (partly due to chaining up) cars mixed in the second lane and in the third lane (not that lane lines were visible...). I don't recall exactly, but traffic was probably mostly 25-30 mph, maybe a little faster in places in the 3rd lane. I had no problem safely driving "much faster" and perhaps more safely, in the mostly unused far left lane. It's been a while, but I was probably going 55 mph and I varied my speed mostly based on my assessment of the risk of vehicles to my right becoming a risk. I could have safely driven faster. My biggest concern was someone in the right lane pulling out in front of me. Granted, studded tires are NOT what I'd put on the vehicle if I needed it to for lots of miles around town on the "wetside"....and I don't think you would want them on your Wet-Side truck either. But, I'd love to hear how that tire performs without studs in similar conditions...maybe you can run a test for us?
That’s a good point! And I should reconsider that. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the “one set of tires” life. Don’t need to worry about changing them out and don’t need to store them, but from a performance standpoint there’s no question about the performance.

Great to hear those Nokians are such good performers. If I went with winter tires those would be the top contender, though I would need to look at the sizes again to see what my options are. Also need to consider my significant investment in tire chains whether they would fit the dedicated winters in whatever size they come in (whether I could remove enough links to make them fit).

I’m also not in the best place right now to be dropping 2-3k on tires and rims.

So in summary, I’ll think about it but I suspect I’ll be staying with my one tire set.
 
lol! I suppose it comes from my first vehicle being a 2WD F-150 with used tires and living with that East of the mountains, where there’s often consistent snow for multiple months every winter. That truck spun out and fishtailed just looking at the snow.

FWIW, I’m also regularly testing my wet traction when there’s safe opportunities.

(My first opportunity in winter I get a good, intentional slide with whatever I’m driving that winter to remind myself how it behaves.)

That’s how I know the comparison point here. It’s gone from “I can only slide the back end if I drive it like a sports car and punch the throttle at the right moment” to “if I take a roundabout aggressively the rear end may step out a touch” (both in the wet, not the dry).



That’s a good point! And I should reconsider that. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the “one set of tires” life. Don’t need to worry about changing them out and don’t need to store them, but from a performance standpoint there’s no question about the performance.

Great to hear those Nokians are such good performers. If I went with winter tires those would be the top contender, though I would need to look at the sizes again to see what my options are. Also need to consider my significant investment in tire chains whether they would fit the dedicated winters in whatever size they come in (whether I could remove enough links to make them fit).

I’m also not in the best place right now to be dropping 2-3k on tires and rims.

So in summary, I’ll think about it but I suspect I’ll be staying with my one tire set.
I do the same - testing traction with brake stops and on some corners so that I know what I am dealing with. IMO it is a prudent safety precaution. But it really annoys the wife and (now adult) kids. I haven't gotten brave enough to deliberately test traction with the diesel beast yet - only when I accidentally use a bit too much right pedal in 1, 2, or even 3 gear. LOL. I didn't know spinning out in 3rd gear was a thing.
 
Time for a quick update on the Toyo ATIII’s. They continue their “meh” streak!

36,000 miles in and they are now slippery in the wet. Will have a fresh measurement soon, but at 31,000 miles they had 11/32” of tread left.

Been kind of fun doing burnouts and fishtailing as it rains, but shows their wet grip has degraded noticeably.

I don’t consider this a fault of the tire, and aligns with my past experience with DuraTracs. It just reinforces that, to me, they are another all terrain tire. Nothing to write home about, with worse than 3PMS DuraTrac performance in winter (though still decent).
I'm having some issues with my stock Duratracs breaking loose on wet roads when accelerating from a stop. I'm pretty light footed in wet weather and find myself having to be even more cautious than I'd prefer. Tires only have 13k on them and I try to keep them at 50 in the rear, 52.5 in the front but the seasonal temperature swings makes that a daily challenge so they tend to run in the mid-to-high 50s.

I've also had a couple of fishtails making turns on wet roads. Fortunately I was going slow enough that it was very easy to get the truck back under control. Wet weather performance + road noise will be my two top criteria when shopping for replacements. I'd take an uglier tire with lower tread life for great specs in all other areas. I'd rather have a great tire I replace more often than a shit tire that lasts forever.
 
I'm having some issues with my stock Duratracs breaking loose on wet roads when accelerating from a stop. I'm pretty light footed in wet weather and find myself having to be even more cautious than I'd prefer. Tires only have 13k on them and I try to keep them at 50 in the rear, 52.5 in the front but the seasonal temperature swings makes that a daily challenge so they tend to run in the mid-to-high 50s.

I've also had a couple of fishtails making turns on wet roads. Fortunately I was going slow enough that it was very easy to get the truck back under control. Wet weather performance + road noise will be my two top criteria when shopping for replacements. I'd take an uglier tire with lower tread life for great specs in all other areas. I'd rather have a great tire I replace more often than a shit tire that lasts forever.
That certainly seems like low miles to be losing traction. Interesting. Are your stock DuraTracs 3PMS?

Agreed on performance being more important that looks and tread life, though!
 
That certainly seems like low miles to be losing traction. Interesting. Are your stock DuraTracs 3PMS?

Agreed on performance being more important that looks and tread life, though!
I'll have to check to confirm, but I think they stopped putting the 3PMS version on in 23. I don't recall seeing the symbol on the tires.
 
I'll have to check to confirm, but I think they stopped putting the 3PMS version on in 23. I don't recall seeing the symbol on the tires.
22s didn't get 3PMS either. If they did it was only very few trucks for the first week or two of production.
 
I'll have to check to confirm, but I think they stopped putting the 3PMS version on in 23. I don't recall seeing the symbol on the tires.
Ah right, I guess your model year is in your username lol. Ya, as Bronco said definitely not 3PMS, then. I wonder if the harder compound is a part of what's causing your low traction in the wet.
 
Ah right, I guess your model year is in your username lol. Ya, as Bronco said definitely not 3PMS, then. I wonder if the harder compound is a part of what's causing your low traction in the wet.
Probably... Wonder if is also because the back end is so light and the low end torque management in normal drive mode. I haven't tried putting it in slippery mode to see if that reduces the issue. I imagine a bit more weight on the bed could help as well, but I'm unlikely to add weight for the sake of solving this issue. Fortunately, plenty of rain in the forecast so I should have opportunities to try it out the different drive setting.

I figure the 6.7L crowd would have more issues give the massive increase in torque output, but maybe the management system is better on that version?
 
Probably... Wonder if is also because the back end is so light and the low end torque management in normal drive mode. I haven't tried putting it in slippery mode to see if that reduces the issue. I imagine a bit more weight on the bed could help as well, but I'm unlikely to add weight for the sake of solving this issue. Fortunately, plenty of rain in the forecast so I should have opportunities to try it out the different drive setting.

I figure the 6.7L crowd would have more issues give the massive increase in torque output, but maybe the management system is better on that version?
Oh ya, the light back-end and lots of torque will absolutely contribute. It just sounds to me like you're getting excessive slip compared to other pickups. Curious to hear your results in slippery mode. I know it makes my truck less prone to losing traction based on my experiments in winter.

Remember that the 6.7L is heavily torque limited in first gear. I believe 3rd gear is where it finally has all torque available to it. I don't know what it's limited to in first gear, and whether that's more than the 7.3L or not.
 
I’m between those and the DuraTrac RT’s. Falkens for their wet/snow reputation. DuraTracs because of my past history with them, but dampened by the fact the RT’s are, ultimately, a different tire than the regular DuraTracs.

I figure I have 2-3 years left on the Toyo’s at their current wear rate and my current mileage, so still have time to decide.
I know the Falkens have a very good reputation and not a lot of info on the Duratrac RTs yet. But my current experience with the RTs has been an eye opener. They seem very solid in rain and highway use. I don't do extreme offroad ventures, mostly dirt trails in the mountains. But I have not had a single complaint so far. Time will tell if wear offers a change, I have not tried them in snow yet but will be there at the end of May. (Heading to the high country for a photo shoot)

I believe the Kevlar compound and 3 ply sidewalls, is a big improvement on this tire.
 
I know the Falkens have a very good reputation and not a lot of info on the Duratrac RTs yet. But my current experience with the RTs has been an eye opener. They seem very solid in rain and highway use. I don't do extreme offroad ventures, mostly dirt trails in the mountains. But I have not had a single complaint so far. Time will tell if wear offers a change, I have not tried them in snow yet but will be there at the end of May. (Heading to the high country for a photo shoot)

I believe the Kevlar compound and 3 ply sidewalls, is a big improvement on this tire.
Good to hear the RT's have been doing well so far! Will be very interested to hear how they perform in the snow and, arguably more importantly, ice.

Agreed on the thicker sidewalls being a big improvement.
 
Time for a long-overdue product review, and a new product review. Both products from Subtle Design, a.k.a. @BroncOh!

First up: Tank Warden (locking fuel cap). This is long overdue as it's been for pre-order and then sale for a bit now, but I was in the habit of keeping quiet about it.

Full transparency: Bronco sent me this cap for free for testing...and that's it. No mentions or expectations of writing a review. What I've written below are my honest feelings about the product, and if I didn't have anything nice to say I wouldn't say anything at all.

I received this cap at the end of July, 2022 and I've been running it since, putting over 25,000 miles on my truck (to give an idea of number of fill-ups). While the gas version is not for sale at this time, I hope this reinforces the quality of the product for those running diesel. If it can work with the sensitive EVAP systems on a gas truck, it will work with your diesel.

The best thing I can say about the cap: after install, I almost immediately forgot it was on there. That's because it's so seamless to use. It feels like a factory designed product.

A quick quarter turn with the key releases the cap. The cap holder provides a great place to keep the cap while you're filling up. The key is captured in the cap when unlocked to ensure you don't lose it. Another quarter turn and the cap is locked on again.

The cap holder alone is a massive upgrade over the factory cap, ignoring the locking function. Though admittedly, if you only care about a better cap holder there are far less expensive options dedicated to that. Here's the one I installed prior to getting Tank Warden:


I've used the cap through a large variety of conditions. From high humidity living in the Pacific Northwest near the coast, to dry heat east of the mountains in eastern Washington and British Columbia; from temperatures as cold as -15F to as hot as 105F; on dusty, rough forest roads and long, 8+ hour continuous stretches of driving.

Throughout my two years with it, the cap has remained easy to use and trouble-free. I have never received a check engine light as a result of Tank Warden - high praise for an aftermarket gas cap. I did receive a check engine light once as a result of pinching the o-ring, but that's user error and was easily corrected by removing and re-installing the cap. My understanding is the design was improved after my unit to make that even less likely to happen, and it only happened that one time.

I'm not qualified enough to speak on the security of the cap. Like pretty much everything, it seems plenty secure enough to keep the simple, opportunistic thieves out. If someone really wants to get in there, they'll find a way regardless of what locking cap you have. I appreciate the key/keyway isn't a common design, making it less likely a thief will know how to attack the lock itself, while still having unique bitting per truck.

To finish up, I would have happily paid the full price for the cap. I'm impressed.

Links:
 
Next up, the dead pedal from Subtle Design, a.k.a. @BroncOh!

To be clear, since this is preceded by my Tank Warden review: I pre-ordered the dead pedal with my own money and had no interaction with the product prior to receiving it.

Installation took about 10 minutes. Instructions are clear, and it's just generally logical. I'll echo @86skier's install tip:

Pro tip: Before finalizing step four and bolting it in, extend the 10 mm nut referenced in step 5 and dry fit the peice until you have to sort of wedge it into place. That 10mm nut is hard to get to with the insulation, so the less you have to turn it one in place, the better. Mine was at least 1/2" from the firewall on first install, found removing the bracket and extending the foot first to be far easier.

The pedal itself is incredibly adjustable. Up/down, forward/back, angle up/down. This may result in a prolonged amount of time adjusting it if you're a perfectionist. I likely spent more time on adjustment than on the install, and will almost certainly fine tune it more as I find the perfect position. :D

Once installed, it's exactly what it says on the tin: a dead pedal. It's rock solid and, impressively, stays out of the way of both the parking brake and service brake pedals.

I've driven with it for about a half hour so far. Not a huge amount of time, but enough to get some solid first impressions. It's been a while since I've driven a vehicle with a dead pedal and I didn't realize just how much I missed it. I immediately noticed the support I get from the dead pedal.

Just leaving my driveway and bouncing over the curb, I was immediately more stable in my seat as I pressed against the dead pedal. I often drive with only my left hand on the wheel, right arm resting on the center console. The result is if I go around a right corner, I was instinctively grabbing onto the center console to provide just a bit of support. Within 5 minutes with the dead pedal I'm not doing it anymore, instead using the dead pedal to gently stabilize myself.

That wasn't a long enough drive to really notice the better resting angle of my foot, but I'm confident that will be world's better when I do some longer drives.

It will take a bit to get used to having there when it comes to the parking brake. I like to "catch" the parking brake with my foot when releasing it, so it doesn't slam upwards, and I found myself "catching" the dead pedal by mistake a few times. Not a big deal and I'll get used to it.

Nicely done, Bronco!

Links:
 
Next up, the dead pedal from Subtle Design, a.k.a. @BroncOh!

To be clear, since this is preceded by my Tank Warden review: I pre-ordered the dead pedal with my own money and had no interaction with the product prior to receiving it.

Installation took about 10 minutes. Instructions are clear, and it's just generally logical. I'll echo @86skier's install tip:



The pedal itself is incredibly adjustable. Up/down, forward/back, angle up/down. This may result in a prolonged amount of time adjusting it if you're a perfectionist. I likely spent more time on adjustment than on the install, and will almost certainly fine tune it more as I find the perfect position. :D

Once installed, it's exactly what it says on the tin: a dead pedal. It's rock solid and, impressively, stays out of the way of both the parking brake and service brake pedals.

I've driven with it for about a half hour so far. Not a huge amount of time, but enough to get some solid first impressions. It's been a while since I've driven a vehicle with a dead pedal and I didn't realize just how much I missed it. I immediately noticed the support I get from the dead pedal.

Just leaving my driveway and bouncing over the curb, I was immediately more stable in my seat as I pressed against the dead pedal. I often drive with only my left hand on the wheel, right arm resting on the center console. The result is if I go around a right corner, I was instinctively grabbing onto the center console to provide just a bit of support. Within 5 minutes with the dead pedal I'm not doing it anymore, instead using the dead pedal to gently stabilize myself.

That wasn't a long enough drive to really notice the better resting angle of my foot, but I'm confident that will be world's better when I do some longer drives.

It will take a bit to get used to having there when it comes to the parking brake. I like to "catch" the parking brake with my foot when releasing it, so it doesn't slam upwards, and I found myself "catching" the dead pedal by mistake a few times. Not a big deal and I'll get used to it.

Nicely done, Bronco!

Links:
Have you used it to brake like you were subconsciously driving a go-kart? 🤪
 
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