Pro-power worth it?

[RCompton]

Hey guys read through this whole thread and I am doing my best to interpret all the ideas and electric terminology. Anyhow I am a large motorcycle enthusiast as well and someone posted on a facebook group that their F-150 charged their Stark Varg electric dirt bike. Now I understand the hybrid has the highest output. Is there anything I can add to my 2022 F250 6.7 Tremor similar to Broncho's setup that looks awesome and factory?

The charging current for the Stark Varg is 220V or 10amp. Is this even feasible?

A Surron is 67.2V max output. Sorry new at these terms but just want to see. Would be pretty cool to have it on the go an either charge while driving or at least be able to sit at the track/riding campground and use my rig.

As far as I know @BroncOh’s is one of a kind.

No problem learning new terms. Current = amps, and all electrical circuits have amps AND volts. Pretend electricity was like water, so I can use an analogy as if it were plumbing, volts are like pressure (ex PSI), and the current is like the flow (ex gallons per min).

A battery bank with something in the Victron Quattro or Multiplus series could work. They have 120V and 220V versions. If you get the 220V you’ll need another piece of equipment to get it back to 120V to use with your normal stuff. However, you might be able to wire a 220V circuit by using two 120V outputs from the inverter. When you’re driving or at home, you could charge the battery bank and then not have to run the engine for power. And neither SD engine likes idling.

Safiery has some neat stuff that looks well put together with a good fit and finish. There are some other manufacturers, especially the van life, who make some nice boxes to house all the stuff too.

 

[Chadx]

Hey guys read through this whole thread and I am doing my best to interpret all the ideas and electric terminology. Anyhow I am a large motorcycle enthusiast as well and someone posted on a facebook group that their F-150 charged their Stark Varg electric dirt bike. Now I understand the hybrid has the highest output. Is there anything I can add to my 2022 F250 6.7 Tremor similar to Broncho's setup that looks awesome and factory?

The charging current for the Stark Varg is 220V or 10amp. Is this even feasible?

A Surron is 67.2V max output. Sorry new at these terms but just want to see. Would be pretty cool to have it on the go an either charge while driving or at least be able to sit at the track/riding campground and use my rig.

We need a bit more info on what you are trying to do and your starting point.
Which bike are you looking to charge? Or do you have a Suron now (which one?) and are looking to get a Varg?

All Surron models have 120v chargers (if it's a U.S. charger). Stark Varg have 240v charger (that can also charge at 120v with an adapter. 120v charges at the same amps as 240v but is have the voltage so outputs have the watts which means 1/2 the charge rate).

Does your SuperDuty have Pro Power Onboard? I'm assuming you don't have Pro Power or you wouldn't be asking. But if it did, those are 120v rated at up to 2,000watts. That is plenty to use the 120v charger from any of the Surron Models or 120v charging for the Stark Varg. Superduty do not have 240v outlets.

So, for options, you could add a 2000watt 12v-to-120v inverter and charge either bike on 120v. 120v charging is slow for a Varg since they have around 6.6kWh batteries. If you want fast charging, you'll want a 240v power source. That is a bit more complicated to add to the truck and run directly off existing 12v alternators. I submit that, or 240v, you are better off buying a generator capable of 240v charging at the necessary amp draw. Or, setting yourself up with a "solar generator" (misleading name for an all-in-one battery/inverter/AC charger/solar controller). They are getting more economical, capable and better functions by the day. There are varieties that you can combine two to have 240v or larger systems that have 240v. You can size the battery accordingly to have plenty to charge your electric dirtbike and use solar, DC power or AC "shore power" to charge up the battery bank. Or make your own with some big LiFePo4 batteries and a 240v inverter. Piece together whatever charging system, for that battery bank, that you want. So many ways to skin a cat for this use.

Most have been discussed in extreme detail on various electric dirtbike forums and FB groups. I'd suggest logging into one of those, for whichever bike your are looking to charge, and searching for backlog of charging discussions. On the two main Varg FB groups, it's discussed in detail previously (though someone asks the same question weekly without searching. Ha.).

https://electricdirtriders.com/ started as an Alta forum and now is Stark Varg as well. That is a better source, and easier to search and follow, than FB in my opinion.

 

[BayouTiger]

I have never given ProPower a thought, but while at the track a few weeks ago I was thinking how much nicer it might have been to just plug the trailer into the truck instead of dragging out the generator(s). Of course this would mean that the truck stay tethered to the trailer all day if it's hot and we need to run the A/C or Swamp Cooler which is not practical, but could work for short spurts. I am guessing the 7.3 would blast through a lot of fuel at idel compared to my Hondas. And then there is the issue of running a 7.3 at idle for hours which has proven to be their downfall which come to think of it pretty much eliminates ProPower from being very useful on the gasser.

 

[Chadx]

I have never given ProPower a thought, but while at the track a few weeks ago I was thinking how much nicer it might have been to just plug the trailer into the truck instead of dragging out the generator(s). Of course this would mean that the truck stay tethered to the trailer all day if it's hot and we need to run the A/C or Swamp Cooler which is not practical, but could work for short spurts. I am guessing the 7.3 would blast through a lot of fuel at idel compared to my Hondas. And then there is the issue of running a 7.3 at idle for hours which has proven to be their downfall which come to think of it pretty much eliminates ProPower from being very useful on the gasser.

To me, the deciding factor would be how often, and duration, it's used. For regular use (such as for a camper), the fuel efficiency and putting the wear-and-tear on a generator is the way to go. The Pro-Power for occasional and varied uses (not hours on end).
As I outlined back in post https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/pro-power-worth-it.13817/post-396562, I wish I would NOT have optioned Pro-Power, mainly because it dedicates one of your two alternators only to that system and makes it unusable for the main 12v output since it's 24v alternator. I would have put in my own 12v to 120v inverter (rather than their 24v to 120v which also includes to small 12v batteries wired in series under the back seat). Or, simply spent the $2,000, that the Pro Power costs, towards a high end generator, which can be used anyplace; not just where the truck is parked.

Granted, it is more complicated to carry and secure a generator than always having the pro-power available, but really depends on your use case, how often you use it, and the duration (run time) because I'd much rather put runtime hours on a little generator engine than a comparatively expensive and inefficient 7.3L engine.

 

[BayouTiger]

To me, the deciding factor would be how often, and duration, it's used. For regular use (such as for a camper), the fuel efficiency and putting the wear-and-tear on a generator is the way to go. The Pro-Power for occasional and varied uses (not hours on end).
As I outlined back in post https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/pro-power-worth-it.13817/post-396562, I wish I would NOT have optioned Pro-Power, mainly because it dedicates one of your two alternators only to that system and makes it unusable for the main 12v output since it's 24v alternator. I would have put in my own 12v to 120v inverter (rather than their 24v to 120v which also includes to small 12v batteries wired in series under the back seat). Or, simply spent the $2,000, that the Pro Power costs, towards a high end generator, which can be used anyplace; not just where the truck is parked.

Granted, it is more complicated to carry and secure a generator than always having the pro-power available, but really depends on your use case, how often you use it, and the duration (run time) because I'd much rather put runtime hours on a little generator engine than a comparatively expensive and inefficient 7.3L engine.

Agree. As I said the thought came to me, but I can see lots of reasons against it. But there are times that I need to plug in for a short time where it would be convenient, but I have a power station for that.

 

[MrFancypants]

I have never given ProPower a thought, but while at the track a few weeks ago I was thinking how much nicer it might have been to just plug the trailer into the truck instead of dragging out the generator(s).

Keep in mind that the 2kW ProPower does not generate enough power to run most trailers directly. It can power the 12V converter and a few low power 120V accessories, possibly the microwave, but I'd be very surprised if it can handle the peak load of an air conditioner. You might get it to work if you have an easy start but it's not a good idea to run your truck at 100% duty cycle for extended periods.

I just ordered ProPower on my new F350 to do what you described, but my setup is unique. I have a 210Ah LFP with inverter and 650W solar that can run my AC for about 4 hours at an appropriate duty cycle (generally about 95F and sunny). The challenge I sometimes run into is late in the afternoon there is not enough sun to top up the batteries before dusk. For longer trips I have taken my 2400W portable generator "just in case". With ProPower, I need <10A @120V to power the 85A charger on my trailer. This means if I get caught with my pants down at 4PM or if weather doesn't cooperate for several days, I can run the truck for an hour and get my lithium bank back over 50%. Now I will be able to leave my portable generator at home, while getting the other benefits of running small appliances off the truck if I need to.

 

[diese nuts]

I have the ProPower and would absolutely get it again. It would be nice if it had the juice of the 7KW F150 version for AC purposes, but I have a Bluetti 200L that I keep plugged into the ProPower. The Bluetti will power my ICECO, fans, CPAP and diesel heater for several days on a charge. Then it will fully re-charge in less than 45 minutes of driving or idling in an emergency. No fumes, power always available and charges when I am driving to work or back insanely fast.

 

[Chadx]

Keep in mind that the 2kW ProPower does not generate enough power to run most trailers directly. It can power the 12V converter and a few low power 120V accessories, possibly the microwave, but I'd be very surprised if it can handle the peak load of an air conditioner. You might get it to work if you have an easy start but it's not a good idea to run your truck at 100% duty cycle for extended periods.

I just ordered ProPower on my new F350 to do what you described, but my setup is unique. I have a 210Ah LFP with inverter and 650W solar that can run my AC for about 4 hours at an appropriate duty cycle (generally about 95F and sunny). The challenge I sometimes run into is late in the afternoon there is not enough sun to top up the batteries before dusk. For longer trips I have taken my 2400W portable generator "just in case". With ProPower, I need <10A @120V to power the 85A charger on my trailer. This means if I get caught with my pants down at 4PM or if weather doesn't cooperate for several days, I can run the truck for an hour and get my lithium bank back over 50%. Now I will be able to leave my portable generator at home, while getting the other benefits of running small appliances off the truck if I need to.

I submit that recharging your camper battery bank via a DC/DC charger (or chargers) would be much more efficient than with Pro Power. The losses are significant converting from 24v DC to 120v AC and back to 12v DC nominal (really 14.4 - 14.6v since you are charging lithium battery bank). The only challenge with DC/DC charging is voltage loss on long conductor runs, but using appropriately sized conductors will care for that and it will be much less lossy than converting/inverting voltage and current so many times.

Check out the Victron 50amp DC/DC charger which came out early 2024. Small and very efficient. One or two of those and you'll be charging your camper battery bank at 50 or 100amps. Somewhat heavy gauge conductors will be needed, but 2AWG or 1/0 AWG will likely run two 50amp DC/DC chargers (don't know how long your conductor run would be from your truck battery to camper battery bank which will dictate conductor size). A properly sized Anderson plug near the rear bumper to connect to the trailer and the DC chargers places close to your battery bank and you are golden. And, with no Pro Power, you'll have two 12v Alternators rather than only one 12v and one 24v so plenty of amps for DC charging. And the cabling and two Victron DC/DC chargers costs half as much as Pro Power (Street price of Victron 50amp DC is about $325 each (x2) and $250 for 80feet of 1/0 stranded cable puts you less than $1,000). And, you'll be charging at 100amps rather than 85amps so 15% less idle time. Plus, because it's less lossy, your alternators are not working as hard as you are eliminating likely around 10% loss from the DC to AC conversion. If it is 10% efficiency saving by eliminating one hop, that means the load on your alternators is 10% less for the same amount of amps (recharge) making it into your camper battery.
Just throwing out options for those interested in exploring charging alternatives.

The other option I've thought about is DC/DC charging off the 24v pro power circuit. I assume one could add conductors to the 24v system (the two little 12v batteries wired in series to 24v under the rear seat). Running 24v DC would allow smaller conductors and/or less voltage drop. But the choices of "24v DC to 12v DC" chargers are less plentiful. At least it would eliminate converting from DC to AC and back to DC along with the voltage changes at each hop.

I will agree, though, just using a pro power onboard is hitting the 'easy button', as you just turn it on and plug in, so there is value in that even if it's very inefficient compared to DC/DC charging.

Lots of interesting ways to do it. Each with pros and cons. Fun stuff to talk about.

 

[MrFancypants]

The other option I've thought about is DC/DC charging off the 24v pro power circuit. I assume one could add conductors to the 24v system (the two little 12v batteries wired in series to 24v under the rear seat). Running 24v DC would allow smaller conductors and/or less voltage drop. But the choices of "24v DC to 12v DC" chargers are less plentiful. At least it would eliminate converting from DC to AC and back to DC along with the voltage changes at each hop.

Yeah I hear you. The problem is how to get to 85A charge current the easiest for something I don't need every day. I bought a 1000W inverter to build this configuration on my MY22 before it was wrecked, but never got around to it because running all the wiring was going to be a PITA. If I were doing a bed camper I absolutely would go DC-DC, but my use case is pretty specific. The conversion losses are real but for me it just means a little more gasoline for an hour max and carrying a common outdoor extension cord.

Tapping into the 24V alternator is an interesting idea, but it has a lot of the same hassles and like you said, ProPower is the easy button. It's tough to build a reliable 2kW alternative for under $1000.

 

[sholzer17]

I get good use of of it on my truck when the power is out at home and I need to run my sump pump. totally worth it if you don't have a separate generator