Pro-power worth it?

[Chrispy]

So, I use my ProPower in two different ways. I installed my own solar system in the truck with two 100AH batteries and two 100 watt panels on top of my truck. I did not install an inverter because I already have a Jackery that can charge from USB C and I don’t need much for AC anyway, almost everything I use can be run from DC including my Starlink. But what did do is install a battery charger that runs from AC. So I use the ProPower to charge my system when solar isn’t good enough.

The other way I use my ProPower is to charge my trailer batteries when solar isn’t efficient for that either. I just finished a week long dry camping trip at Teton National Park and used my truck an hour or two a day to charge my batteries because of the tree cover.

If I felt more capable I might have done a more incorporated system that has a converter hooked up to the truck and run my own AC wiring so things were more seamless but I honestly like the versatility this offers me.

One thing to note though is I am not able to use a full 2000 watts with my trailer hooked up for some reason. I had to limit my Multiplus in the trailer to about 14amps or about 1600 watts or I would get various exceptions from the ProPower controller. I don’t know what this is about, if it is something wrong with the ProPower or something in my trailer. But in general I am happy I don’t have to carry around a generator for my needs.

 

[Dzho]

So, I use my ProPower in two different ways. I installed my own solar system in the truck with two 100AH batteries and two 100 watt panels on top of my truck. I did not install an inverter because I already have a Jackery that can charge from USB C and I don’t need much for AC anyway, almost everything I use can be run from DC including my Starlink. But what did do is install a battery charger that runs from AC. So I use the ProPower to charge my system when solar isn’t good enough.

The other way I use my ProPower is to charge my trailer batteries when solar isn’t efficient for that either. I just finished a week long dry camping trip at Teton National Park and used my truck an hour or two a day to charge my batteries because of the tree cover.

If I felt more capable I might have done a more incorporated system that has a converter hooked up to the truck and run my own AC wiring so things were more seamless but I honestly like the versatility this offers me.

One thing to note though is I am not able to use a full 2000 watts with my trailer hooked up for some reason. I had to limit my Multiplus in the trailer to about 14amps or about 1600 watts or I would get various exceptions from the ProPower controller. I don’t know what this is about, if it is something wrong with the ProPower or something in my trailer. But in general I am happy I don’t have to carry around a generator for my needs.

How did you connect/charge the batteries? I tried plugging the shore power and it complained about open ground and wouldn't work.

 

[Chadx]

How did you connect/charge the batteries? I tried plugging the shore power and it complained about open ground and wouldn't work.

"Shore Power" typically is defined as feeding grid electric (120v or 240v) to some load (camper, boat, etc.). Or are you saying you were trying to backfeed power from your Superduty ProPower to your house panel (backfeed into shore power)?

 

[Dzho]

"Shore Power" typically is defined as feeding grid electric (120v or 240v) to some load (camper, boat, etc.). Or are you saying you were trying to backfeed power from your Superduty ProPower to your house panel (backfeed into shore power)?

I was trying to use the ProPower to power the camper

 

[MrFancypants]

How did you connect/charge the batteries? I tried plugging the shore power and it complained about open ground and wouldn't work.

This will happen when you use a generator too. You can trick the system using a bonding plug.

 

[Dzho]

This will happen when you use a generator too. You can trick the system using a bonding plug.

Bonding plug works with the Bluetti but causes the ProPower to trip.

 

[MrFancypants]

Bonding plug works with the Bluetti but causes the ProPower to trip.

Looks like it may be more complicated because ProPower has a built in GFI. You may need to disconnect the ground at the truck entirely (from Google):

Pro-power ground solved - solved.​

So we got the proper interlock and hookup for the house installed today. However when we tried to power any load from the truck it tripped out with a ground fault.
To understand why you need to understand a little about GFIs - they are Ground Fault Interrupters, their purpose is to detect current flowing to ground, which should not happen, and to disconnect the circuit before it electrocutes you or starts a fire. Simplified, they do this by measuring the difference between the power in the live (hot) and neutral. They should be the same, if they aren't then current is leaking to ground.
So the F150 ProPower has a 4 pin 30A 240v NMEA connection, two 120v phases of live (hot) , plus ground and neutral. In a home panel, per code, ground and neutral are tied together in the same bus bar. The F150 does the same thing- ground and neutral are tied together (some Honda Generators also do this). This makes sense if you are using the truck to power equipment on a job site.
If you install it normal generator interlock which allows a generator breaker to be switched on when the grid is off it will have the same 4 connections and the ground and neutral will be tied together in the house panel. This is a problem.
When a load is applied because ground and neutral are connected in the house panel you have two, equal, return paths for the current to the generator (truck). About 50% of your return current is going to flow through ground rather than neutral. This unbalanced load, where current on neutral is not equal to current in the live side trips the GFI and the truck shuts off with a ground fault.
This will happen with any generator that has a GFI and that bonds ground and neutral if they are also bonded further downstream in the circuit. After some discussion with my electrician and his boss we disconnected the ground from the generator input socket. This still leaves truck ground tied to neutral and the house panel neutral tied to the house ground but because the truck ground is not a true ground it is not a ground loop and the GFI doesn't trip.
tl;dr - if you are hooking an F150 Pro Power to a house via an interlock and generator breaker don't connect the ground from the truck.

 

[Dzho]

Turns out electricity is both complicated AND painful

 

[Chadx]

It can get you! Hurts a lot more than leaking water when doing plumbing. Ha.

 

[Chrispy]

I was trying to use the ProPower to power the camper

So I had this issue and just tripped the breakers for my water heater (I can use propane for this) and both my AC units. This seemed to solve the problem. But for some reason I would still get an open ground fault after awhile if I allowed my Multiplus to draw more than about 13 amps or so. But once set the limit lower then it would work fine.

 

[Wapitispokes]

I just ordered my '23 F250. Upon getting home I noticed the paperwork has the $1000 pro-power option checked, which I didn't ask for. I did do the dual batteries and alternators though. I was going to have my salesman remove it, but he already submitted the order and it'll have to get it changed tomorrow. Or..... I could keep it. Are there any real good uses for it? I thought the inverter takes up valuable underseat room. But then I was thinking if I got one of those power pack "solar generator" things, the pro-power could easily charge it up while driving. It can charge up my Milwaukee tool batteries if I'm doing a project remotely. Hmmmm.....

I skpped the Pro Power on my F350 Diesel Tremor. 4 reasons.

1) My personal plan was (and is) to do a topper build with an AT Overland Atlas, so it will become a dedicated travel / "car camping" vehicle with solar, etc. That build is well underway. Given that build it wouldn't be a bid deal to have the installer add an on board power system using equipment that doesn't require the engine to run while using it.

2) It is my understanding that the engine needs to be running when the pro power is in use. That makes it more of a "fuel powered generator" than a battery powered system. I absolutely do not want to be required to idle the diesel engine in order to use a high powered system while camping / boondocking. No Way. If I'm wrong on my belief that the engine needs to be running, please LMK, but I did a bit of research on it.

3) Had it been a Godzilla engine I may have considered the Pro-Power @ "only" $1,000 to bridge me to a potentially unnecessary install of a more camping friendly system. But probably not. The way I looked at it was that I'm saving $1,000 that can be put towards a more expensive camping oriented power system that doesn't require me to run the engine.

4) The ability to crank out huge AMPs would be nice but hardly mission critical for my usage. But if I want to, I'll just add a second 120 aH Lithium "house" battery and high quality inverter. Yes, that will cost more than $1,000 but it will be more useful for my application. Probably I'll find that my existing system is adequate.

 

[Dzho]

I skpped the Pro Power on my F350 Diesel Tremor. 4 reasons.

1) My personal plan was (and is) to do a topper build with an AT Overland Atlas, so it will become a dedicated travel / "car camping" vehicle with solar, etc. That build is well underway. Given that build it wouldn't be a bid deal to have the installer add an on board power system using equipment that doesn't require the engine to run while using it.

2) It is my understanding that the engine needs to be running when the pro power is in use. That makes it more of a "fuel powered generator" than a battery powered system. I absolutely do not want to be required to idle the diesel engine in order to use a high powered system while camping / boondocking. No Way. If I'm wrong on my belief that the engine needs to be running, please LMK, but I did a bit of research on it.

3) Had it been a Godzilla engine I may have considered the Pro-Power @ "only" $1,000 to bridge me to a potentially unnecessary install of a more camping friendly system. But probably not. The way I looked at it was that I'm saving $1,000 that can be put towards a more expensive camping oriented power system that doesn't require me to run the engine.

4) The ability to crank out huge AMPs would be nice but hardly mission critical for my usage. But if I want to, I'll just add a second 120 aH Lithium "house" battery and high quality inverter. Yes, that will cost more than $1,000 but it will be more useful for my application. Probably I'll find that my existing system is adequate.

Engine needs to be running

 

[diese nuts]

I am glad I have mine, I believe it is worth it. Disappointing that it doesn't have the same utility as the F150 version, but you can improvise.

I use mine to recharge a Bluetti 2048wh battery bank. With the rapid charge ability of the battery, and the output of the pro power, the idle time is minimal. More often than not, I plug in the battery while driving and turn on the Pro power and it is back to 100% without any idle time.

 

[Chadx]

I skpped the Pro Power...

For your camping rig, or for anyone that wants power off of a battery bank (power without engine running), skipping Pro Power is the right call. If a person is charging a battery bank, you are MUCH better using one or more DC-to-DC chargers to charge the battery bank than use ProPower which is 120v AC. The loss of efficiency alone makes that not a good way to do it because you are converting from 24v DC (Pro Power is 24v) to 120v AC then to 12v DC. The second reason is the Pro Power dedicates one of your alternator to ONLY Pro Power as it is a 24v alternator and 24v inverter. So you can only have one 12v alternator in your pickup if you have Pro Power.

For anyone charging a 12v battery bank in your topper or slide-in camper, stay away from Pro Power. Order with no Pro Power and instead get dual 12v batteries and duel 12v alternators. Then run appropriate sized cable from one of your batteries to a DC-to-DC charger. Many brands of DC/DC chargers out there, but Victron just released a new version that is much smaller and more powerful than previous versions and charges at 50amps (Orion XS 12/12-50A DC-DC Battery Charger). If you need more, and/or want redundancy, run two separate sets of cables (one from each pickup battery) to two 50amp DC/DC chargers and you are charging your battery bank at 100amps.

An alternative for DC-to-DC chargers and for those that like a more hands-on approach, is skipping the DC-to-DC charger all together. Wire your battery bank directly to your house battery and use a solenoid triggered by one of your upfitter switches. Appropriate sized cable will push about 100amps. With this method, it's best if your 12v house battery bank is at least 200amp hours so 100amp charge rate will only be a 0.5C rate. Charging a 400amp hour house battery at that rate is even better (0.25C at 100amp charge rate). Though some manufactures say you can charge their batteries at 1C, it's best to avoid that for battery logevity. 1C would be charging at the same amps as your battery is in amp hours. Meaning, charging a 100Ah battery at 100amps is charging at 1C. Charging a 50Ah battery at 50amps is charging at 1C. Better to charge at 0.5C or 0.25C. Example: 200Ah battery bank at 50amp charge rate is 0.25C charge rate. Anyway, you are not going to overcharge your LiFePO4 battery even if you forget it on because todays smart alternators charge below the typical lithium charge rate of 14.4 - 14.6 volts. So you'll get really good bulk charging when your battery bank is at a lower state of charge (SOC) but as it approaches 100% SOC, the current will automatically taper off and not overcharge if you forget it on.

The nice thing about this setup is you can flip your upfitter switch and have house battery and pickup batteries connected at any time. So, not only when you want to charge the house battery, but if you want to run some pickup accessory that is current intensive, like an ARB air compressor where you'd normally have to have the pickup running to keep the voltage up, you can flip the switch and connect and run the air compressor off your house battery without the pickup running (would only do with with a 200Ah or larger house battery). Also, if your pickup batteries get run down for some reason, you can send house battery current to your pickup batteries. This method only does bulk charge so is best used if you have solar panels and solar controller to top off your house battery which will give them a change to balance now and then. So this method isn't for everyone, so then the DC-to-DC charger is the best method.

But back to Pro Power. In my opinion, even if all you want is a 2000watt inverter with 120v, you are better off doing you own 12v one so you can have two 12v alternatore rather than the Pro Power which dedicates one 24v alternator to Pro Power and means it is sitting their not being used except when you use pro-power. If one 12v alternator isn't enough for the accessories you run, it's a gut punch to have another alternator on the truck, but you can't get 12v off of it because it's 24v. Not getting Pro Power is the only change I'd make if I re-ordered my '24 Lariat today.

 

[Chadx]

I am glad I have mine, I believe it is worth it. Disappointing that it doesn't have the same utility as the F150 version, but you can improvise.

SuperDuty Pro Power functions the same as the F150 Pro Power; Both have to be running and have max output of 2.4kW (2,400 watts). The F150 Hybrid version can be used with engine not running (then the engine will kick on occasionally to replenish the hybrid battery then shut off engine again). It's slick. Plus, you are not limited to 2,400watts. F150 hybrid Pro Power is available with a 7.2kW (7.200 watts) option.
I think the F150 Lightning is something like 9,600 watts (7,200watts in the bed and 2,400watts in the front trunk or something like that). That's a lot of juice.

 

[diese nuts]

SuperDuty Pro Power functions the same as the F150 Pro Power; Both have to be running and have max output of 2.4kW (2,400 watts). The F150 Hybrid version can be used with engine not running (then the engine will kick on occasionally to replenish the hybrid battery then shut off engine again). It's slick. Plus, you are not limited to 2,400watts. F150 hybrid Pro Power is available with a 7.2kW (7.200 watts) option.
I think the F150 Lightning is something like 9,600 watts (7,200watts in the bed and 2,400watts in the front trunk or something like that). That's a lot of juice.

I should have clarified that I was comparing the hybrid system.

 

[RCompton]

So when you get the dual battery and 410 amp dual alternator options both are 12v? I thought one was still 24v and the other 12v. Funny enough if that is the case the math works out to being able to push out 7.6kw

 

[Himni]

So when you get the dual battery and 410 amp dual alternator options both are 12v? I thought one was still 24v and the other 12v. Funny enough if that is the case the math works out to being able to push out 7.6kw

Pro-Power changes the 2nd alternator to a 24 volt alternator just for the pro-power. The regular dual alternator setup is 2 12 volt alternators and the 2nd one only provides power when the primary is maxed out.

 

[Chadx]

So when you get the dual battery and 410 amp dual alternator options both are 12v? I thought one was still 24v and the other 12v. Funny enough if that is the case the math works out to being able to push out 7.6kw

Like @Himni said, both alternators are 12v on a regular, non-pro-power anternator setup. You cannot have alternators (nor batteries) of different voltages tied together. That is why the propower batteries, that live right by the 24v to 120v inverter, are two 12v batteries wired in series to make a 24v battery. Everything in the proposer system (alternators, battwry bank, and inverter) have to be the same voltage; 24v.
The 12v and 24v systems are completely segregated and cannot be tied together.

 

[JoeFord22]

Hey guys read through this whole thread and I am doing my best to interpret all the ideas and electric terminology. Anyhow I am a large motorcycle enthusiast as well and someone posted on a facebook group that their F-150 charged their Stark Varg electric dirt bike. Now I understand the hybrid has the highest output. Is there anything I can add to my 2022 F250 6.7 Tremor similar to Broncho's setup that looks awesome and factory?

The charging current for the Stark Varg is 220V or 10amp. Is this even feasible?

A Surron is 67.2V max output. Sorry new at these terms but just want to see. Would be pretty cool to have it on the go an either charge while driving or at least be able to sit at the track/riding campground and use my rig.