Carli Pathfinder suspension

[Ragin Cajun]

I'm in the same boat, new 7500's and wondering how I'm going to level my truck. I bought the rig to tow a 17K+ 5th wheel. I had the dealership install the bags. When it comes time, I may add Carli equipment but I'm not glued to that yet. The bags work great. I'll install shackles for sure. But it will be only a level, shocks and 37's. Then later steering components and maybe change the bags to Carli long travel. They work with the Wireless One system so I am only out the cost of replacing the bags. $1225 for new Carli. And I can put progressive springs on her and still tow heavy.

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

Avoid the commuters IMHO.

Remember, ride it subjective. You can always add the leafs later if you don't like the ride (I wouldn't add leafs based on my experience for any reason). You also have the option for the Pintops.

Also, you really should add the Radius arms. Your alignment will thank you later.

Avoid the commuters IMHO.

Remember, ride it subjective. You can always add the leafs later if you don't like the ride (I wouldn't add leafs based on my experience for any reason). You also have the option for the Pintops.

Also, you really should add the Radius arms. Your alignment will thank you later.

Thank you very much for this advice. I have heard that the Commuters are not as good as when they used Fox shocks. So I've been hesitant going that route.

I want to make my decision based on the direction that I won't be adding the Carli Progressive leafs in the future since I have the Air Lift air bags which are not compatible (per the shop that installed them). And the Add-a-Pack is not compatible with Tremor leaf springs.

But that is interesting that you said you wouldn't add leafs for any reason - I'd love to hear more. Because I've read in these forums that the leaf springs are "the most bang for the buck to improve ride quality". So would love to hear a contrasting perspective.

Re: Radius arms, I'm keeping stock 35 tires on stock 18 wheels. Do I need them? My shop said that the Radius arm brackets and shims that come in both the Pathfinder and Commuter kits will give me all the caster that I need. Would love more input on this as well.

thank you!

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Advice I recieved from @BLACKCHERRY last June.https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/carli-pathfinder-questions.24233/post-551505

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

I run a pathfinder on stock rear springs and it works for me.

This feedback helps a lot thank you! Can I ask, what truck do you have (is it a Tremor, diesel or gas, F250 or F350, etc)? And do you have any other upgrades, Carli or other?

Just curious because wondering how close your truck is to mine and if there is any other factors involved, thank you!

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

Advice I recieved from @BLACKCHERRY last June.https://www.fordtremor.com/threads/carli-pathfinder-questions.24233/post-551505

Thank you! I think I saw this post previously. I also did hear I could use the Daystar cradles but it sounds less than perfect. I think I'm going to go with that advice and stick with my stock Tremor leafs and 7500 XLs and either just get the Pathfinder kit (without leafs) or get the Commuter kit if there are any issues with Pathfinder without the Progressives.

 

[donmatteo]

Thank you very much for this advice. I have heard that the Commuters are not as good as when they used Fox shocks. So I've been hesitant going that route.

I want to make my decision based on the direction that I won't be adding the Carli Progressive leafs in the future since I have the Air Lift air bags which are not compatible (per the shop that installed them). And the Add-a-Pack is not compatible with Tremor leaf springs.

But that is interesting that you said you wouldn't add leafs for any reason - I'd love to hear more. Because I've read in these forums that the leaf springs are "the most bang for the buck to improve ride quality". So would love to hear a contrasting perspective.

Re: Radius arms, I'm keeping stock 35 tires on stock 18 wheels. Do I need them? My shop said that the Radius arm brackets and shims that come in both the Pathfinder and Commuter kits will give me all the caster that I need. Would love more input on this as well.

thank you!

I've answered all these questions in your other thread.

Leafs are not the biggest bang for your buck.Shocks and air pressures are.

Leafs would be the last thing I would get and I wouldn't get them.

You 100% need the radius arms if you're doing a Carli left / level. The caster shims only go to I think 3 degrees. The radius arms allow it to go to 5 which is far better.

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

Floating or like a light ass end during spirited driving is normal for suspension designed for heavy load. It’s not the ideal feel obviously but it’s manageable. Carli’s kits are designed as systems so for like peak performance you’d want the full kit. But a compromise of the factory leafs with their shocks and shackles I feel nets you ~ 70% of the system. In my opinion it’s worth it. Plus you can always do the springs later if you choose to. You’ll already have the shocks and shackles and air to support them.

Ok I think this is the best advice I've heard yet. I was worried when I read about the floating issue and I think Carli says "unkown ride quality" without the leafs. But it makes sense that their advice is often for the people who are pushing their systems as far as they can go.

I'm a much lighter driver, 20 to 30% towing a 28' Airstream or 20' Cargo trailer (maxing at 11,000 lbs) and the rest on-road driving that is a mix of smooth paved roads (in DFW) and bumpy rough rural roads. I definitely don't push my truck very hard, but I like to push it a little harder than a Sunday driver haha.

So in this use case - the downsides of the Pathfinders WITHOUT the Progressives are mitigated by my lighter style of driving?

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

+1 on the radius arms. My kit with just the drop brackets aligned fine but as I beat the shit out of the truck and get it realigned it’s never been as good. Def grabbing the arms, maybe on Black Friday if Carli offers any specials.

Ok got it - I will call the shop and tell them to add the arms.

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

I've answered all these questions in your other thread.

Leafs are not the biggest bang for your buck.Shocks and air pressures are.

Leafs would be the last thing I would get and I wouldn't get them.

You 100% need the radius arms if you're doing a Carli left / level. The caster shims only go to I think 3 degrees. The radius arms allow it to go to 5 which is far better.

Ok got it - I'll call the shop now and ask them to add the Radius arms, thank you!

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

+1 on the radius arms. My kit with just the drop brackets aligned fine but as I beat the shit out of the truck and get it realigned it’s never been as good. Def grabbing the arms, maybe on Black Friday if Carli offers any specials.

Oh - what size tires and wheels are you running? I'm keeping stock 35's , wondering if that changes things.

 

[BLACKCHERRY]

Hopefully I'm not too late to the party to ask some questions.

I am trying to decide on what kit to get. I was looking at the Pathfinder kit plus torsion sway bar, upper and lower stabilizers. and.... I WAS also considering the progressive leaf springs

A month ago I unfortunately purchased and had installed an Air Lift 7500XL air bags and have now been told that they are not compatible with the Carli Progressive leaf springs.

So if I have to keep my F250 Tremor leaf springs, as I don't want to lose the $ I paid for the air bags, do I need to go with the Commuter kit instead?

I like the idea of the 2.5 shocks, even though I don't off-road but we have very rough and bumpy country roads here and I also tow about 25% of the time (up to 11,000 Lbs). Was hoping to get the Pathfinder kit but if they aren't meant to go with stock Tremor leaf springs what should I do?

Some people are saying just to buy Fox 2.5 shocks separately. Some said Bilstein 5100s. Some said Pathfinder is fine with stock leafs but I read on these forums that they are not tuned for stock springs.

Would love some help in sorting out my best case set up given that I've already committed to the Air Lift air bags. Thank you in advance!!!!

The Pathfinders are tuned to the Carli Springs. I've driven them on stock springs and the ride leaves a LOT to be desired, but I have extremely high standards. I need to make a video on the process of custom tuning so people can see the extent I obsess on the little nuances of ride quality trying to achieve the perfect balance of all ride characteristics of which the shock/piston are capable. I'm working on the 3.0" Shocks for the leveling right now and it took me 97 revisions (each with a 30 mile test drive through varying terrain) to be happy with the ride. All of this, and I'm going to start over as we designed and cut a new piston in house as i want to try to change the base tool set and capability of the shock.

The words "custom tuned" are buzz words in off-road marketing these days. People claim to get custom shocks from companies online that haven't spend a single mile in the trucks for which they're offering "custom" tuning. We have 25 years of custom-tuning HD, straight axle trucks. Our best guess at what goes in is the starting point, not the product we sell to customers. We will then alter every tool-set we have at our disposal within the shocks to ensure we're optimized in piston, bleed, orifice and shim.

I bring all this up to say that the refinement on which we hyper-focus is what leads to our recommendation. If i were to optimize these shocks to the factory leaf springs, it would be a completely different valving profile. Plenty of people run this combination and are happy with it as indicated by a couple members in this thread already. What's important is that you're happy with the end result.

Fox 2.5" shocks and Bilstein 5100s are WILDLY different - the one thing they share is that they're not refined to any specific application because they're sold as just shocks that fit certain lift height ranges. Naturally, these shocks will be "ball-parked" in valving to try to balance high and low spring rates, varying geometry and travel spec, etc. You're not getting refinement in ride despite getting quality built shocks. Think of it like throwing on a turbo and injectors without tuning the ECU; no one has dialed them into the application to optimize their performance.

I'm rambling, you get it. We engineer environments as it's the best way to get to the performance we tested and signed off. Altering this environment changes the entire ride experience, NOT just the product you're excluding. The entire balance of the front and rear ride changes when you throw factory springs into the mix of a kit/shocks tuned to the Carli springs. Same for airbags. Throw on a short-travel 7,500lb supplemental airbag kit and you're changing the rear spring rate drastically, even at 0 psi and severely limiting travel of your performance suspension.

I'm here to give information, not try to sell anyone. It's not often the customer get's to interface with the mind behind what they're buying to understand the "why" behind the "what". I want to ensure you're educated on what we do and why we do it. If that means you end up in a set of 5100s and stock suspension with 7,500lbs airbags because it better suits your application, I'd rather see you move forward with that than have you buy a Pathfinder kit and be unhappy with the ride because it wasn't optimally configured.

That's not the case here. If you're driving rough, pot-hole ridden country roads, you'll cook 5100s. That's offroad without the "give" that dirt has. A 2.5" shock that's road focused is a great option for you. Stock leaf springs and 7,500lb. airbags will make for a terrible ride on this regardless of shock configuration. If you run the factory springs AND airbags, you ride on the massive, superfluous spring rate when unloaded, then, when hauling, you engage the airbags to unload the factory springs rending their capacity worthless. This is a ton of unnecessary, redundant spring rate. If you plan to run airbags, run a lighter spring on which you can ride when not under load and benefit from their compliance, THEN add the airbags to adjust the capacity in the rear for your varying loads.

My recommendation would be to run the Pathfinder with our leaf springs and your airbags, but run them with a daystar cradle to allow them to disconnect on rear axle droop. They'll still affect the unloaded ride, but it'll be far better than running them with stock springs and won't limit the rear articulation.

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

I've answered all these questions in your other thread.

Leafs are not the biggest bang for your buck.Shocks and air pressures are.

Leafs would be the last thing I would get and I wouldn't get them.

You 100% need the radius arms if you're doing a Carli left / level. The caster shims only go to I think 3 degrees. The radius arms allow it to go to 5 which is far better.

I should have asked previously, if you don't mind letting me know if keeping the stock Tremor 35's wheels and tires changes anything with regard to getting the Radius Arms or sticking with the brackets that come with the kit?

 

[donmatteo]

I should have asked previously, if you don't mind letting me know if keeping the stock Tremor 35's wheels and tires changes anything with regard to getting the Radius Arms or sticking with the brackets that come with the kit?

I have the stock tremor wheels and tires on my 25 F350. Was the same on my old 22 F250.

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

The Pathfinders are tuned to the Carli Springs. I've driven them on stock springs and the ride leaves a LOT to be desired, but I have extremely high standards. I need to make a video on the process of custom tuning so people can see the extent I obsess on the little nuances of ride quality trying to achieve the perfect balance of all ride characteristics of which the shock/piston are capable. I'm working on the 3.0" Shocks for the leveling right now and it took me 97 revisions (each with a 30 mile test drive through varying terrain) to be happy with the ride. All of this, and I'm going to start over as we designed and cut a new piston in house as i want to try to change the base tool set and capability of the shock.

The words "custom tuned" are buzz words in off-road marketing these days. People claim to get custom shocks from companies online that haven't spend a single mile in the trucks for which they're offering "custom" tuning. We have 25 years of custom-tuning HD, straight axle trucks. Our best guess at what goes in is the starting point, not the product we sell to customers. We will then alter every tool-set we have at our disposal within the shocks to ensure we're optimized in piston, bleed, orifice and shim.

I bring all this up to say that the refinement on which we hyper-focus is what leads to our recommendation. If i were to optimize these shocks to the factory leaf springs, it would be a completely different valving profile. Plenty of people run this combination and are happy with it as indicated by a couple members in this thread already. What's important is that you're happy with the end result.

Fox 2.5" shocks and Bilstein 5100s are WILDLY different - the one thing they share is that they're not refined to any specific application because they're sold as just shocks that fit certain lift height ranges. Naturally, these shocks will be "ball-parked" in valving to try to balance high and low spring rates, varying geometry and travel spec, etc. You're not getting refinement in ride despite getting quality built shocks. Think of it like throwing on a turbo and injectors without tuning the ECU; no one has dialed them into the application to optimize their performance.

I'm rambling, you get it. We engineer environments as it's the best way to get to the performance we tested and signed off. Altering this environment changes the entire ride experience, NOT just the product you're excluding. The entire balance of the front and rear ride changes when you throw factory springs into the mix of a kit/shocks tuned to the Carli springs. Same for airbags. Throw on a short-travel 7,500lb supplemental airbag kit and you're changing the rear spring rate drastically, even at 0 psi and severely limiting travel of your performance suspension.

I'm here to give information, not try to sell anyone. It's not often the customer get's to interface with the mind behind what they're buying to understand the "why" behind the "what". I want to ensure you're educated on what we do and why we do it. If that means you end up in a set of 5100s and stock suspension with 7,500lbs airbags because it better suits your application, I'd rather see you move forward with that than have you buy a Pathfinder kit and be unhappy with the ride because it wasn't optimally configured.

That's not the case here. If you're driving rough, pot-hole ridden country roads, you'll cook 5100s. That's offroad without the "give" that dirt has. A 2.5" shock that's road focused is a great option for you. Stock leaf springs and 7,500lb. airbags will make for a terrible ride on this regardless of shock configuration. If you run the factory springs AND airbags, you ride on the massive, superfluous spring rate when unloaded, then, when hauling, you engage the airbags to unload the factory springs rending their capacity worthless. This is a ton of unnecessary, redundant spring rate. If you plan to run airbags, run a lighter spring on which you can ride when not under load and benefit from their compliance, THEN add the airbags to adjust the capacity in the rear for your varying loads.

My recommendation would be to run the Pathfinder with our leaf springs and your airbags, but run them with a daystar cradle to allow them to disconnect on rear axle droop. They'll still affect the unloaded ride, but it'll be far better than running them with stock springs and won't limit the rear articulation.

Thank you so much for all of this insight. This is incredible helpful! I really wish I didn't already invest in these Air Lifts because I would other get the Progressive leaf springs along with the full travel air bags. I just don't want to dump the money already spent on the Air Lifts.

So I guess I will go this route and get the Pathfinders with Daystar cradle. I was planning to also get the torsion sway bar and upper and lower stabilizers.

What do you think about what others have been saying about getting the Radius Arms vs just using the Radius drops in the Pathfinder kit? I'm keeping my stock Tremor 35's until the tires need replacing and then I will consider 37's at that point but the truck is brand new so I have a lot of time before then.

Again - thank you so much for your time, it is really incredible for a company to provide this level of customer interaction! It really speaks volumes to Carli as a brand and their products and makes me feel very confident buying your products!

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

I have the stock tremor wheels and tires on my 25 F350. Was the same on my old 22 F250.

Ok got it - that's what I have as well so this helps greatly. Thanks,

 

[BLACKCHERRY]

Thank you so much for all of this insight. This is incredible helpful! I really wish I didn't already invest in these Air Lifts because I would other get the Progressive leaf springs along with the full travel air bags. I just don't want to dump the money already spent on the Air Lifts.

So I guess I will go this route and get the Pathfinders with Daystar cradle. I was planning to also get the torsion sway bar and upper and lower stabilizers.

What do you think about what others have been saying about getting the Radius Arms vs just using the Radius drops in the Pathfinder kit? I'm keeping my stock Tremor 35's until the tires need replacing and then I will consider 37's at that point but the truck is brand new so I have a lot of time before then.

Again - thank you so much for your time, it is really incredible for a company to provide this level of customer interaction! It really speaks volumes to Carli as a brand and their products and makes me feel very confident buying your products!

My pleasure - I'm just a vehicle nerd at the end of the day; i love chatting about this stuff. I just happen to run Carli, lol.

I'm a big fan of the radius arms for dialing in caster, but do not feel they're necessary on the trucks for which we provide drop brackets. If you want 4-6° of caster, grab the arms. I do feel they drive better with higher caster. If you're keeping the 35" tires, you can easily run 3-4° of caster without issue which is right where these drops will put you.

The larger the tires, the better it drives with higher caster. The radius arms are a great addition to the kit in ride quality and tracking, but i feel the Torsion Sway Bar and Leaf springs on your list are higher value options; more direct ride quality for money spent. If it's an option, use the radius arm money to buy the full-travel airbag setup as the price of the arms is likely the same as the full travels after reselling your 7,500lb bags

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

My pleasure - I'm just a vehicle nerd at the end of the day; i love chatting about this stuff. I just happen to run Carli, lol.

I'm a big fan of the radius arms for dialing in caster, but do not feel they're necessary on the trucks for which we provide drop brackets. If you want 4-6° of caster, grab the arms. I do feel they drive better with higher caster. If you're keeping the 35" tires, you can easily run 3-4° of caster without issue which is right where these drops will put you.

The larger the tires, the better it drives with higher caster. The radius arms are a great addition to the kit in ride quality and tracking, but i feel the Torsion Sway Bar and Leaf springs on your list are higher value options; more direct ride quality for money spent. If it's an option, use the radius arm money to buy the full-travel airbag setup as the price of the arms is likely the same as the full travels after reselling your 7,500lb bags

hmm - anyone on here want to buy Air Lift 7500's?

But good idea, I think I'll start with Pathfinder kit + Torsion sway bar + Upper and Lower Stabilizers (oh and editing to add the Daystar cradles), and then wait on everything else... and later on maybe find a buyer for my air bags and then add the Radius Arms and Progressive Leaf Springs later.

A couple others on here highly suggested adding the Radius Arms now for alignment purposes but I called the shop I'm working with and they said they can easily add them later on if I want and to be honest, this is a big enough chunk of change that it's better for me to split this into smaller increments anyhow.

Thank you once again and I truly wish you a wonderful weekend!!!

 

[Ragin Cajun]

hmm - anyone on here want to buy Air Lift 7500's?

But good idea, I think I'll start with Pathfinder kit + Torsion sway bar + Upper and Lower Stabilizers (oh and editing to add the Daystar cradles), and then wait on everything else... and later on maybe find a buyer for my air bags and then add the Radius Arms and Progressive Leaf Springs later.

A couple others on here highly suggested adding the Radius Arms now for alignment purposes but I called the shop I'm working with and they said they can easily add them later on if I want and to be honest, this is a big enough chunk of change that it's better for me to split this into smaller increments anyhow.

Thank you once again and I truly wish you a wonderful weekend!!!

Unfortunately, the 7500's are 7". I cannot find any cradles bigger than 6". Please let me know if you do.

 

[MidcenturySchizoidMan]

Unfortunately, the 7500's are 7". I cannot find any cradles bigger than 6". Please let me know if you do.

DOH!!!

I keep getting into this situation where I'm stuck due to the air bags I just bought and had installed. Uggh.

If I find anything that works you will be the first person I message.

 

[BLACKCHERRY]

hmm - anyone on here want to buy Air Lift 7500's?

But good idea, I think I'll start with Pathfinder kit + Torsion sway bar + Upper and Lower Stabilizers (oh and editing to add the Daystar cradles), and then wait on everything else... and later on maybe find a buyer for my air bags and then add the Radius Arms and Progressive Leaf Springs later.

A couple others on here highly suggested adding the Radius Arms now for alignment purposes but I called the shop I'm working with and they said they can easily add them later on if I want and to be honest, this is a big enough chunk of change that it's better for me to split this into smaller increments anyhow.

Thank you once again and I truly wish you a wonderful weekend!!!

The Radius arms don't replace anything so there's no downside to adding them later. For example, if the radius arm drops weren't required with the radius arms, then not buying them first means you'd be replacing the brackets on which you spend a solid chunk of $$. Because they install into the drop brackets for ideal travel stroke and geometry correction, there's no monetary downside to adding them later.