Air bags

Jrod250 said:
It can’t be the tires because in the f350 the 5th wheel/goose neck is 20k gas and 21,900 for the diesel They all have the same tires
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only other difference is lack of sway bar or shocks

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With the F250 Diesel Tremor, you'd be within the GVWR of the truck and the GCWR or the whole rig towing 17K - but still not be OK with the conventional towing weight rating.
The stock 18" wheel/tires do not have much to do with the rated pull-behind weight for the Tremor, the F250s are rated @20K with HD tow package (535) (with the same 18" wheels). Is the 535 option available with the Tremor package in Diesel? I don't know, never tried to build one like that.

If there was an accident, I think it would be a ton of legal trouble. A good lawyer may be able to eek you out, but if the trailer is overloaded from its GVWR, then you're just in trouble from the get-go... 17K sounds like a lot of loaded weight for a bumper-pull TT! My guess is the TT is only a 16K trailer at best and is overloaded.
 
Where is the tow weight limits and GCWR officially listed? I see it in the towing guide, but that's got such a "markety" feel to it that it doesn't seem official.

You've got the GVWR, even some payload math for the weight of the truck, and axle weight ratings on the door jamb stickers. But I'm not sure where to find the "this is what Ford declared your truck capable of to the DOT."

I'm not looking for a loophole to bumper tow a 21k haul. I'm more worried about something bad happening, I say "look at this guide! I was ok!" And then everyone in the courtroom laughs because that guide's number doesn't include the moonroof and power windows or something.

Would be reassuring to know I've got exactly the right material to determine I'm safely and legally towing.
 
bananawine said:
Where is the tow weight limits and GCWR officially listed? I see it in the towing guide, but that's got such a "markety" feel to it that it doesn't seem official.

You've got the GVWR, even some payload math for the weight of the truck, and axle weight ratings on the door jamb stickers. But I'm not sure where to find the "this is what Ford declared your truck capable of to the DOT."

I'm not looking for a loophole to bumper tow a 21k haul. I'm more worried about something bad happening, I say "look at this guide! I was ok!" And then everyone in the courtroom laughs because that guide's number doesn't include the moonroof and power windows or something.

Would be reassuring to know I've got exactly the right material to determine I'm safely and legally towing.
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The GVWR and GCWR "should" match the tow guide numbers on the door sill tag of the vehicle. It's the maximum ratings for that build. What may change is "payload" which depends on the options/trim selected. If you tow with your vehicle, you should have a 'guesstimate' of what you are towing and what payload you are adding - but before your 1st trip, you should visit the nearest CAT scale to make sure you are not exceeding FAWR, RAWR, tongue weight, trailer weight and then GCWR.
 
bananawine said:
Where is the tow weight limits and GCWR officially listed? I see it in the towing guide, but that's got such a "markety" feel to it that it doesn't seem official.

You've got the GVWR, even some payload math for the weight of the truck, and axle weight ratings on the door jamb stickers. But I'm not sure where to find the "this is what Ford declared your truck capable of to the DOT."

I'm not looking for a loophole to bumper tow a 21k haul. I'm more worried about something bad happening, I say "look at this guide! I was ok!" And then everyone in the courtroom laughs because that guide's number doesn't include the moonroof and power windows or something.

Would be reassuring to know I've got exactly the right material to determine I'm safely and legally towing.
Click to expand...
The Ford towing guide is the official guide.
The trucks are rated for a specific GROSS weight regardless of options. I’ll attempt to explain this w/o it being super wordy.

Let’s say for easy maths sake that the trucks GVWR is 10k. The truck gets built and then weighed. Depending on how the truck is optioned, that weight can vary by a lot. The difference between the trucks weight and the gvwr is the payload capacity. So if the truck weights 8000 and the GVWR is 10000 then the payload is 2000. The truck can’t legally weigh over 10,000 fully loaded.
Some trucks optioned differently can with 8500. That means payload is 1500, but the GVWR is still 10000. You just cant load as much weight into they truck because empty it’s heavier.
The options don’t change the GVWR or the Combined Gross vehicle weight rating
 
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If you exceed GCVW, you're screwed. If one of the other parameters are over, you can usually shift load balances and payload around to stay within the requirements (like loading the trailer differently or as simple as putting extra fuel for your toys in the bed of the truck forward of the rear axle, instead of in the TT itself, etc...). Sometimes it's a matter of planning.
 
... on a special note, sometimes you have to tell the wife to stay home when you are going on that special fishing trip and plan to bring back 500# of trophy fish along with a huge cooler of ice. Sorry dear.... you can't come - it's not legal!
 
Jrod250 said:
The Ford towing guide is the official guide.
The trucks are rated for a specific GROSS weight regardless of options. I’ll attempt to explain this w/o it being super wordy.

Let’s say for easy maths sake that the trucks GVWR is 10k. The truck gets built and then weighed. Depending on how the truck is optioned, that weight can vary by a lot. The difference between the trucks weight and the gvwr is the payload capacity. So if the truck weights 8000 and the GVWR is 10000 then the payload is 2000. The truck can’t legally weigh over 10,000 fully loaded.
Some trucks optioned differently can with 8500. That means payload is 1500, but the GVWR is still 10000. You just cant load as much weight into they truck because empty it’s heavier.
The options don’t change the GVWC or the Combined Gross vehicle weight rating
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Same also applies to Gross COMBINED vehicle weight rating.
Say 20k is the GCVWR and your max towing is 11k.
the empty 8,000lb truck plus 11k trailer is 19000k COMBINED, so you’re legally ok.
but say you have the trucks payload maxed out and the truck is 10k loaded (GVWR max) and your maxed out on towing at 11k, now you’re over the GCVWR
Again these are just made up numbers.
but legally none of the max numbers can be exceeded
 
Lots of great answers, so won't reply individually - so the only source of the 15k conventional tow limit is the Ford towing guide? Likewise with the gooseneck / fifth wheel limits?

Edit: one thing I'm thinking of is for the 2021, they put that bumper pull hitch on it that has a giant sticker saying something like "18,000 pound max tow!" But the Tremor is really only 15,000 pound. And I should point to the tow guide when people ask.
 
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Oh yea... sorry, the air bag question... the reason for the rake in the truck is so that you are level when you carry loads, which is what Super Dutys are supposed to do most of the time. A level, unloaded truck is nice. A loaded truck with little weight transfered tn the front axle is not too nice. Yes, you could use air bags as one option, I am personally looking at Sumo springs (if I decide to level my Tremor or go with larger tires). If not, I'll just leave the rake as it is. I want to tow with it first before I start monkeying around with any of the suspension.
 
bananawine said:
Lots of great answers, so won't reply individually - so the only source of the 15k conventional tow limit is the Ford towing guide? Likewise with the gooseneck / fifth wheel limits?
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Yes, they do not have the individual towing method ratings stamped on the door sill (to my knowledge). The conventional tow rating is a combination of frame design, spring rating and tongue weight... it's an engineering recommendation for the vehicle itself, but if you exceed that, you are most likely going to exceed the GCVW (diesel might be the exception) or the tongue weight. The higher 20K rating is applied with the option package 535 (whatever that includes) and also gear ratios have a little bit to do with it. For Tremors, they are basically the same. Interesting to note... I can hang a 1300# plow on my gas Tremor, but Diesels are limited to 965# on the front-end.
 
rhines81 said:
Yes, they do not have the individual towing method ratings stamped on the door sill (to my knowledge). The conventional tow rating is a combination of frame design, spring rating and tongue weight... it's an engineering recommendation for the vehicle itself, but if you exceed that, you are most likely going to exceed the GCVW (diesel might be the exception) or the tongue weight. The higher 20K rating is applied with the option package 535 (whatever that includes) and also gear ratios have a little bit to do with it. For Tremors, they are basically the same. Interesting to note... I can hang a 1300# plow on my gas Tremor, but Diesels are limited to 965# on the front-end.
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That’s because the Diesel engine is heavier.
 
rhines81 said:
but if you exceed that, you are most likely going to exceed the GCVW
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This is what I'm thinking of - I think this particular toy hauler is rated to 16,750 GVWR (if I found the right one - I'm not OP), but had a tongue weight of 1,700 pounds. So if I'm running the F350 Tremor 6.7L - it's not exceeding the GCVWR of 30k, it's not exceeding the TT's weight. It's not exceeding the payload rating. It's not exceeding rear or front axle.

But it is exceeding the 15k limit from the tow guide. So maybe my warranty is shot. But am I actually over the legal limit?

Edit: and other than by googling the guide and pulling it up, how would I know? Is there some indication on the truck somewhere?
 
bananawine said:
I think this particular toy hauler is rated to 16,750 GVWR (if I found the right one - I'm not OP)
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If the scale says 17K, it exceeded the GVWR of the trailer by 250# which is not legal. An example of simple load balancing that can keep you out of deep do-do if an accident happened.
 
rhines81 said:
If the scale says 17K, it exceeded the GVWR of the trailer by 250# which is not legal. An example of simple load balancing that can keep you out of deep do-do if an accident happened.
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Right, but even if you had it at 16k. It seems you would be within every legal limit stated, but would be exceeding the tow guide. So is it just the warranty would be called into question? But legally it's allowed to roll?
 
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