6.7 Time to Oil Pressure

[Optimus]

Are you sure it’s ice? Your water shouldn’t be chewable, Optimus.

You're right! It wasn't ice; it was a lemon seed. Now what I do!?

 

[ccw]

You're right! It wasn't ice; it was a lemon seed. Now what I do!?

The only answer is fire. Burn it all with fire.

 

[HeavyAssault]

You're right! It wasn't ice; it was a lemon seed. Now what I do!?

DO NOT swallow it!!! You can get pregnant !!!

 

[Optimus]

Lifter broke. I suggest you reach out the 800-number in your owner's manual for further trouble shooting. Due to the high number of calls your wait time may be significantly longer than expected. You can choose to leave a call back number at which one of our representatives will get back to you as soon as possible to help resolve your issue.

Ok thank you but this is the last straw

 

[ccw]

Ok thank you but this is the last straw

Wait, it’s your last straw? Well go order some more ASAP!

 

[HeavyAssault]

Ok thank you but this is the last straw

Dehydration will set in. Once you are in the bone yard we will split up your gear.

 

[Vermonster]

I would agree to a point, when you look at that flow path diagram, that "check valve would limit very little from getting back to the pan.

Now think about it : WHY is there so much oil that seems to drain out when we take off the oil filter element??? Chicken dinner coupons will not be honored if your guess is correct.

vacuum/pressurization?

 

[JTredway]

I would agree to a point, when you look at that flow path diagram, that "check valve would limit very little from getting back to the pan.

Now think about it : WHY is there so much oil that seems to drain out when we take off the oil filter element??? Chicken dinner coupons will not be honored if your guess is correct.

This is where I am at, also seeing trucks with proper oil changes and hitting 300+ mi and then having Brutus right up to a million miles. Could there be benefit to this add'l anti-drainback device, sure but I feel like we are inventing new stuff just to say we made something or making problems out of low to no issue situations.

 

[MTUcrash]

I would agree to a point, when you look at that flow path diagram, that "check valve would limit very little from getting back to the pan.

Now think about it : WHY is there so much oil that seems to drain out when we take off the oil filter element??? Chicken dinner coupons will not be honored if your guess is correct.

To answer this, along with a previous question- yes, there is a check valve in the oil filter to keep oil from draining back into the pan. That is why there is so much oil that drains out of the filter outlet in the block when you remove the filter, even if you stab the filter with a screwdriver first and let it drain. Also why it is so important to select the correct filter if not using oem filters. Some aftermarket filters don’t have the check valve built in.

 

[HeavyAssault]

vacuum/pressurization?

I'd suggest a little of both along with the oil filter has an anti-drain back feature as well I recall. So well....when we already have a "check valve" in place...ask....why is he seeming to say he's doing something with the pickup tube??

Maybe his thinking is to hold additional fluid in the tube while the oil pump starts turning as to keep the oil pump primed??????? Hence he creates a smaller reserve of oil, at which when the truck cranks starts filling the galleries till it can pull full suction at the oil pan pickup. That way there's no need to "wait" to pull oil from the pickup, fill the pickup tube to the oil pump, pressurize the oil, then fill the galleries. That makes sense to me. If that area can hold even a 1/2 quart of oil I'd be surprised. But then I say the oil pump would never be "bone dry". Sure the oil pump MIGHT not hold any volume of oil, but the oil passages and oil filter really don't allow any drain-back to anywhere.

To call this some sort of "engineering mistake".....well 9-10 doctors will have different opinions on how to solve your healthcare problems.

 

[JTredway]

To answer this, along with a previous question- yes, there is a check valve in the oil filter to keep oil from draining back into the pan. That is why there is so much oil that drains out of the filter outlet in the block when you remove the filter, even if you stab the filter with a screwdriver first and let it drain. Also why it is so important to select the correct filter if not using oem filters. Some aftermarket filters don’t have the check valve built in.

This I think is one concern along with the lack of bypass valve with the beloved Filters. (The 6.7 Powerstroke does not have an internal bypass in the block where a certain equipment manufacturer does)

 

[MTUcrash]

This I think is one concern along with the lack of bypass valve with the beloved Filters. (The 6.7 Powerstroke does not have an internal bypass in the block where a certain equipment manufacturer does)

Exactly! Always have to be careful when dealing with aftermarket systems that run non-OEM filters….. make sure you know what it all effects and changes.

 

[Tremor Saga]

• How does the 7.3L gas compare? What about engines from other manufacturers?

The 7.3 gas engine has the ability to build oil pressure without starting. My understanding is the 6.7 will light with a furry if you attempt this same process.

I have push to start, not sure how key start will function.
When holding the brake and accelerator to the floor while pushing start, the fuel injectors are disabled, the engine spins without firing until the accelerator is released.

Simple non-scientific test for the 7.3.
On the first day, for the first start of the day, start with accelerator to the floor and the second day start normally.
Compare the time it takes for oil pressure to indicate on the gauge.

My FOMOCO vehicles are not primary, so mostly sit with a full oil sump. I never light the engine until oil pressure is indicated.

 

[JTredway]

The 7.3 gas engine has the ability to build oil pressure without starting. My understanding is the 6.7 will light with a furry if you attempt this same process.

I have push to start, not sure how key start will function.
When holding the brake and accelerator to the floor while pushing start, the fuel injectors are disabled, the engine spins without firing until the accelerator is released.

Simple non-scientific test for the 7.3.
On the first day, for the first start of the day, start with accelerator to the floor and the second day start normally.
Compare the time it takes for oil pressure to indicate on the gauge.

View attachment 152784

My FOMOCO vehicles are not primary, so mostly sit with a full oil sump. I never light the engine until oil pressure is indicated.

Can confirm, I am/was use to doing this to prime filters and help with cam phaser rattle on the ecoboosts I have had in the past, ironically one of fords recent updates to the ecoboost is to delay ignition to prime longer for that lol.

But imagine my shock doing that after an oil change and she tried to rev out real quick on my 6.7 lol. Needless to say I don't do that now.

 

[ccw]

This is where I am at, also seeing trucks with proper oil changes and hitting 300+ mi and then having Brutus right up to a million miles. Could there be benefit to this add'l anti-drainback device, sure but I feel like we are inventing new stuff just to say we made something or making problems out of low to no issue situations.

This is certainly true. 5-10 6.7's a month at his shop isn't small, but it's also without context (how many 6.7's are on the road overall; how many are seeing bearing failures, and at what mileage out of that overall population). Ford is in the best position to know for sure.

To answer this, along with a previous question- yes, there is a check valve in the oil filter to keep oil from draining back into the pan. That is why there is so much oil that drains out of the filter outlet in the block when you remove the filter, even if you stab the filter with a screwdriver first and let it drain. Also why it is so important to select the correct filter if not using oem filters. Some aftermarket filters don’t have the check valve built in.

Agreed. But also why I asked this: "Isn't the oil filter supposed to have an anti-drainback feature on it to prevent the oil from draining out? Why does that seem to be having so little impact here?"

If the check valve in the oil filter prevents the oil from leaving the block, why does it take so long for him to see oil at the top of the block? Why would a check valve in the pickup tube make such a noticeable difference?

The 7.3 gas engine has the ability to build oil pressure without starting. My understanding is the 6.7 will light with a furry if you attempt this same process.

I have push to start, not sure how key start will function.
When holding the brake and accelerator to the floor while pushing start, the fuel injectors are disabled, the engine spins without firing until the accelerator is released.

Simple non-scientific test for the 7.3.
On the first day, for the first start of the day, start with accelerator to the floor and the second day start normally.
Compare the time it takes for oil pressure to indicate on the gauge.

View attachment 152784

My FOMOCO vehicles are not primary, so mostly sit with a full oil sump. I never light the engine until oil pressure is indicated.

Flood/clear mode! I use it with every oil change to fill up the filter and prime the system before letting the engine start.

Worth noting that it's the forum's consensus that the oil pressure gauge is really a binary indicator, either enough pressure or not. It doesn't fluctuate if oil pressure fluctuates.

 

[MTUcrash]

This is certainly true. 5-10 6.7's a month at his shop isn't small, but it's also without context (how many 6.7's are on the road overall; how many are seeing bearing failures, and at what mileage out of that overall population). Ford is in the best position to know for sure.


Agreed. But also why I asked this: "Isn't the oil filter supposed to have an anti-drainback feature on it to prevent the oil from draining out? Why does that seem to be having so little impact here?"

If the check valve in the oil filter prevents the oil from leaving the block, why does it take so long for him to see oil at the top of the block? Why would a check valve in the pickup tube make such a noticeable difference?


Flood/clear mode! I use it with every oil change to fill up the filter and prime the system before letting the engine start.

Worth noting that it's the forum's consensus that the oil pressure gauge is really a binary indicator, either enough pressure or not. It doesn't fluctuate if oil pressure fluctuates.

Yes, and this is the question I wish he had addressed. Why is the filter check valve not adequate or functioning properly. That is supposed to be the purpose of it, so why does it not seem to work in his test.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Yes, and this is the question I wish he had addressed. Why is the filter check valve not adequate or functioning properly. That is supposed to be the purpose of it, so why does it not seem to work in his test.

Not to mention how long have ICE been around??? It's not the first rodeo dealing with oil pressure. It's not the frist time someone was "building a better mouse trap" to stop "oil starvation".

Ask yourself.....why after the "mods" are done along with his "demo" there's this ODD looking connection on the filter housing??

 

[Mr Salty]

My $.02 on this and something that hasn’t been mentioned yet and that is oil temperature. The true viscosity of the oil isn’t realized until it has reached “operating” temperature, which is motor dependent. As a M3 owner, we all too well know the issues with rod bearings these motors experience because of the extremely tight tolerances they are designed with. The key thing for bearing longevity is proper warm up and why we all have oil temp gauges on our dash! Believe me, it’s very tempting to get that early thrill but patience! I practice this on what ever I drive.

 

[Winterized]

It was stated earlier in the thread that some aftermarket filters don't have the check valve. I wonder how many of the trucks he's seeing come into his shop may have been victims of incorrect aftermarket filters or counterfeit "Motorcraft" filters with no check valve bought off Amazon from shady sellers.

Could be his product is unnecessary for folks who buy the genuine OEM article but helpful for those who do not, knowingly or unknowingly. I wouldn't have had a clue about the oil filter check valve if I hadn't read this thread. I wonder how many still don't know.

 

[pkrexer]

The 6.7 has been out now for 12 years? If this truly was an issue, Ford would have likely made changes by now.

I know he's seeing engines come in everyday, but I don't think I've heard of a 6.7 fail due to oil starvation.