Whipple Installed!

[GT-SD]

Checking in on this.

Did Whipple get their tuning issues sorted out?

Still happy with the install?

I have racked up ~11,600 miles on the truck, or approximately 10k after the Whipple install. So far it has performed great and I've been very happy. To date, no check engine lights, no misfires and no problems to report.

Whipple has not updated the calibration yet, but I have gotten used to some of the nuances. Some of the shifting performance is similar to many of the complaints and is probably just the characteristic of this 10R140. The only complaint with the Whipple calibration is the downshifting and load management when cruise control is engaged while towing heavy (10k+ lbs).

The oil was changed at ~1600 miles (when Whipple was installed), ~5,000 miles and 10,000 miles. Based on the data logging of engine parameters, observations of the boost gauge and oil analysis, there doesn't seem to any adverse effects to having the Whipple with normal driving and towing. Below is the oil analysis reports. I have done all the changes using Motorcraft Oil Filters and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30. 5k mile OCI is the max that I will run.

The truck drives phenomenal and has all the power in the world. It really is great to drive. In everyday driving, the duty cycle of the Whipple is ~1-3% if that. It only kicks in if you call for more power than the engine can deliver for the gearing/speed range. The engine accelerates a lot more at a lower RPM. Before, if I wanted aggressive acceleration, it would require mashing the pedal and revving the engine to 4 - 5k RPM. With the extra boost and premium fuel, it accelerates very strong between 2,500 - 4,000 RPM. Cruising 75 - 85mph empty, you set the cruise control and it never loses speed or downshifts regardless of grade (at least the ones I have put it through); it just stays in 10th. If you are towing heavy, the Duty Cycle of the Whipple is more around 10-15%. You use boost early in the acceleration and then it fluctuates depending on load and grade changes. Again, based on the data logging I have done, there doesn't seem to be any adverse effects (that at least show up via temperature or otherwise) to these Duty Cycles while towing.

A word of caution though, if you plan to beat on it pretty hard (4x4 launches, multiple high speed track pulls, etc), especially with a custom tune, you can find the weak link. I do not do any of this on my truck, but there is a report or two catastrophic failures with a Superduty running the Whipple. The known instances were running Custom Tunes and were treating the truck like a weekend dragster (frequent 4x4 launches, multiple 120+MPH runs, etc). From what I have read, the Whipple calibration keeps the redline in safe territory depending on load along with other safeguards. Some custom calibrations may decide to bump these up slightly to soak a little more power out on the dyno along with modifying other engine parameters. If you do a search, there are several articles in swap forums and others about the 7.3L stock engine and max RPM limitations before you start to overstress the pistons and rods. There is probably some compromise between a custom tune and base Whipple calibration that makes a relatively safe, but better performing calibration. I would recommend using someone that a very good track record and proven success with 7.3L's if you were to go this route. For me, I plan on sticking with the base Whipple Tune that underwent durability testing on the Dyno.

Time will tell if this mod impacts longevity, but so far the data looks promising. I'll continue to take data and update periodically. Hope all of this information is helpful to the group.

 

[Avslash]

Thanks for the detailed update.

I agree with you on keeping the Whipple tune. I'm not a track junkie, so I doubt I would ever be beating on it in the manner you describe. Really just looking to make a truck I already enjoy better but keep the ability to do all the truck things I normally do with it.

What really makes it appealing to me is that "catastrophic" in this case, means replace with a $8,000 crate engine. That is a bargain in the modded engines world.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

That's awesome. What mileage are you seeing unloaded, loaded?

DA

 

[GT-SD]

That's awesome. What mileage are you seeing unloaded, loaded?

DA

I don't know what happened, but I guess the reply I typed with graphs and stuff never posted last week.

In lieu of writing the dissertation again, this is a summary of what I am seeing:

- Lifetime of the Truck - 10MPG
- Towing - 7- 10 MPG (6k - 15k)
- All Highway (55 - 65) 14 - 15
- All Highway (65 - 75) 13 - 14
- All Highway (75 - 85) 12 - 13

My average tank is around 10MPG, but with the 58 gallon transfer flow tank, there is rarely an entire tank that is either highway or I don't have some sort of trailer tow time mixed in or I didn't sit in 1hr of stop and go traffic. I log all my fill ups and hand calculate. I also have instantaneous data taken while logging quite a few miles. All that put together results in the numbers above. Another thing that is a factor, especially stop and go traffic, is I have about 800-1,000lbs of tools, fuel and accessory weight that I carry around everyday. If you were to have a long road that you went 45 - 50 MPH for a significant distance without stop and go, you could possibly eek out 16/17, but who does that!?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't know what happened, but I guess the reply I typed with graphs and stuff never posted last week.

In lieu of writing the dissertation again, this is a summary of what I am seeing:

- Lifetime of the Truck - 10MPG
- Towing - 7- 10 MPG (6k - 15k)
- All Highway (55 - 65) 14 - 15
- All Highway (65 - 75) 13 - 14
- All Highway (75 - 85) 12 - 13

My average tank is around 10MPG, but with the 58 gallon transfer flow tank, there is rarely an entire tank that is either highway or I don't have some sort of trailer tow time mixed in or I didn't sit in 1hr of stop and go traffic. I log all my fill ups and hand calculate. I also have instantaneous data taken while logging quite a few miles. All that put together results in the numbers above. Another thing that is a factor, especially stop and go traffic, is I have about 800-1,000lbs of tools, fuel and accessory weight that I carry around everyday. If you were to have a long road that you went 45 - 50 MPH for a significant distance without stop and go, you could possibly eek out 16/17, but who does that!?

Those numbers don't look much different than stock.

Thanks!

DA

 

[VB!]

It's been a few months, anything new to report?

I'm thinking more and more about this and Whipple tells me they expect to have this ready for the '23s around the end of the year.

 

[GT-SD]

It's been a few months, anything new to report?

I'm thinking more and more about this and Whipple tells me they expect to have this ready for the '23s around the end of the year.

Actually I Sold It, had a 23 on order then a 24 and pre-ordered a 25 just in case. Just Kidding, some of these guys on here barely break theirs in before they have a new one!!!! I have WAY too much invested in the truck, need to get some miles and years out of it.

Rolling 14,9xx miles on the clock, have done a 500-600 miles or so towing heavy over the last month or two. Going to do an oil change and send a sample out tomorrow. So far still very happy. The truck performs very well, I had a few friends that have the 6.7 ride with me when towing heavy and were impressed. (I did scare them with a full throttle acceleration from 60 - 100 empty; this thing is just stupid fast). I don't beat on it very hard, but don't baby it either. I still log and review the data every 1 - 2k miles to see if there is anything awry, but everything seems to be normal to date. So far no check engine light or codes. At 20k or 25k I'll change the spark plugs and belt as Whipple has recommended, but based on what I have witnessed on the duty cycle of my driving habits, they would probably go 50 -75k miles or more without issue. I just am not seeing a lot of loading time and the belt still looks new.

Here's a picture from a few weeks ago. ~14 - 15k pulled through the Hill Country bucking a 15 - 20mph headwind. That trip the 7.3l definitely had a drinking problem.

 

[VB!]

The truck performs very well, I had a few friends that have the 6.7 ride with me when towing heavy and were impressed. (I did scare them with a full throttle acceleration from 60 - 100 empty; this thing is just stupid fast).

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback. Now, on this part above. Did the Whipple tune remove the governed speed? I recall stock is 96 or 97 MPH. I forgot to ask them.

 

[GT-SD]

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback. Now, on this part above. Did the Whipple tune remove the governed speed? I recall stock is 96 or 97 MPH. I forgot to ask them.

To be honest, I haven't taken it past 97-99ish to test it or maybe it's still there and prevented me from going faster. I have only reached those speeds a very limited number of times and it was usually a passing or merge situation where you got on it, look down and are surprised you're going that fast, immediately let off and start reducing speed. Without knowing the weak link in running these 8k+ vehicles over 100MPH, I would be hesitant to remove the OEM limitations or personally want go much faster. Given Whipple's efforts to be 50 state emission compliant and balance power with reliability with this kit, my guess is that Whipple left the factory limited governed speed.

 

[GT-SD]

Just providing an update. I'm currently sitting at ~18,500 miles. FINALLY got the results in from my Oil Change in November around ~15k miles. So far everything is looking good engine wise. To date, no CEL's or issues to report. Still undecided, but thinking I'll go to 25k miles before changing the plugs and belt. Next Oil Change will be at 20k.

As far as the transmission, I previously mentioned some of the same behavior that several other people have mentioned (flared shifts 3 - 4, 4 - 5 especially when cold). These were not terrible, but more of an annoyance. There has been several discussions where people that reset adaptive tables on the transmission would indicate it fixed it for 30 - 100 miles and then it would degrade again. So around 15k miles, I reset the adaptive tables and it was smooth as butter....for ~100 miles or so and then started to do the same thing over again (especially cold). So at ~17,500 miles, I reset the adaptive tables, drove it for 10 miles and then entered the command to stop adaptive learning. Low and behold, the transmission has been shifting great for the last ~1,000 miles. So far, I haven't found any downside to this.

Based on my reading and research, the most likely cause would be build tolerances and valve sealing of the 10R140 (at least my build date) does not meet the expectations of the adaptive programming resulting in too much pressure bleed between the valve shifting and solenoid timing. The base calibration does well, but as it tries to learn and optimize the solenoid timing for the shift, the adaptive programming is not able to account for the pressure leak by in the valve body. In essence, it is almost like it tries to too perfectly time the synchronization of the shift as if there is perfect pressure switching and shift pressures in the valve body but Ford built some of these with too much clearance or break in debri's are resulting in poor valve sealing. It will be interesting to see how it plays out and may explain on how some of the tuners have addressed this by possibly numbing down the adaptive learn or increasing pressures. In my case, the 700HP/750TQ upgrade to the engine definitely won't help the situation if it is going to fail. It will likely just push it to grave sooner. Either way, so far it seems like the adaptive learning disable resolved my 10R140 shifting annoyance. It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that a reason some of the 10R140 transmissions go out is that the constant flared shifting wearing the clutches down along with other negative effects of unexpected loading due to the adaptive process. I'll probably do a fluid/filter transmission service at 25k just to see what's in the pan; might even do a transmission fluid analysis.

Below is the results from my most recent oil change. There was ~1000 miles of towing fairly heavy on this one. Looks good so far an no indication of any lifter delamination yet, which seems to be a big topic nowadays, although I'm not sure how big of an issue it really is.

So far all is well, truck runs great and love having the instant power.

 

[Raspy]

GT-SD,

I don't see how we could expect the tranny to not flare, as it is seeing way more power than it is programmed to deal with, based on throttle position and RPM. Just a thought, but I wonder if the diesel transmission programming would be more appropriate than the stock tuning, on a supercharged 7.3? Somehow the tranny needs to be programmed to shift solidly under way higher torque levels and not downshift too early. A flairing shift is a problem that indicates the tranny is not tuned for the incoming power. I do like your temporary solution of shutting off adaptive tuning. How is that done? Firm shifts are a good thing.

If I understand your excellent reporting, do you mean Whipple tuning has nothing to do with tranny tuning?

As far as some experiencing catastrophic failures, that is to be totally expected given that, for many, more is never enough. There will always be those trying to push the performance to the next level regardless of the possible consequences. I have a lot of respect for Brian at Whipple and his extensive testing on the 7.3. I have talked to him about a concern I had about the 7.3 design that is likely to show up under high boost levels. Specifically, the close siamese bore spacing and coolant cut between the bores. This leaves very little head gasket area between the bores and is a likely clog spot in an already too small coolant passage. His response was that he agreed. But after a lot of testing, at elevated power levels, and re-using the head gaskets over and over, he had seen no failures. So, I stopped worrying about it and ordered my Tremor. Now, considering the extra heat and stresses with boost, I wonder if the oil pump programming should also be addressed. I did not ask him about that. The bearings should be fine, but more pressure at the squirters would be nice at higher HP levels.

Since my biggest wish for this truck is reliability, and since I go four wheeling and tow an off-road caravan all over the place, and since I don't consder the 7.3 to be underpowered, I am happy with the current power level. If I do blow it up, or wear it out, I would consider a Megazilla replacement with its beefier internals and about 185 more HP right out of the box. But a blown stock 7.3 would probably have more low end torque. I haven't studied any graphs to compare.

 

[xler8r]

So, I read the post above about the MPG...and its "sounding" like you're getting the same MPG after the install as you were before? I was really curious to know what the end product netted you.

 

[GT-SD]

I don't see how we could expect the tranny to not flare, as it is seeing way more power than it is programmed to deal with, based on throttle position and RPM. Just a thought, but I wonder if the diesel transmission programming would be more appropriate than the stock tuning, on a supercharged 7.3? Somehow the tranny needs to be programmed to shift solidly under way higher torque levels and not downshift too early.

The Whipple doesn't work quite like that. The engine remains Normally Aspirated up until the point you call for Boost. Then a valve opens and allows the supercharger to put a lot more air in. When running the truck empty, boost only happens ~2 - 3% of the time, usually during acceleration events. The reason you get additional power, even with the engine running under the NA situation 97 - 98% of the time, is the intake configuration change (the Whipple Intake), a larger throttle body (150MM?) and a tune on 91 octane along with larger injectors. This significantly increases the stock motor output without the added boost. From my experience during normal driving, even with fairly aggressive acceleration, the boost rarely kicks in.

So under normal operations and when I was experience the flare shift was very light throttle and lower speeds; at these levels there is not much difference from the engine output and performance than a stock motor.

If I understand your excellent reporting, do you mean Whipple tuning has nothing to do with tranny tuning?

Whipple Tune does include transmission optimization.

I do like your temporary solution of shutting off adaptive tuning. How is that done? Firm shifts are a good thing.

The flare shift in the 3 - 4; 4 - 5 is a common complaint in 7.3's with the 10 speed. Mine developed it in the 8 - 10k range. In many of the complaints I read, people would take it to the dealer, it would run great afterwards and then develop the goofy shifting again 100 - 1000 miles later. So it would shift great until the Adaptive Learning would "learn" and start modifying shift strategies. After watching many, many videos on 10R80 and 10R140 rebuilds, problems and understanding how they work, especially with the valve body configuration, it started to point to the adaptive learning process doesn't properly account for transmission break-in and pressure differences causing some of these flares. Shutting the Adaptive learning off is easy with ForScan. You can reset it and then stop it from the ForScan App on your phone.

 

[GT-SD]

So, I read the post above about the MPG...and its "sounding" like you're getting the same MPG after the install as you were before? I was really curious to know what the end product netted you.

Below is the hand calculated graph of every fill up. As I often go 400 - 500 miles between fill ups, and the 5yr, $200MM road construction project around my house has me sitting in stop and go for 30 - 45mins 2 - 3 days a week; my fuel economy average is 10. On the highway, if I am running 80 - 85, it's 11 - 12. It just gets better if you slow down. Given similar conditions, over the life of my 17 F250 6.7L, I averaged 13.2. There is very little "idle" time sitting in park for either truck.

Hopefully the construction will wrap up this year and significantly reduce my stop and go traffic time.

 

[Modman]

You can reset it and then stop it from the ForScan App on your phone.

Do you have an iPhone or Android? I think Google has still banned this from the Play Store unless it's back on again... I'll have to check.

 

[GT-SD]

Do you have an iPhone or Android? I think Google has still banned this from the Play Store unless it's back on again... I'll have to check.

I have an iPhone.

 

[Raspy]

The Whipple doesn't work quite like that. The engine remains Normally Aspirated up until the point you call for Boost. Then a valve opens and allows the supercharger to put a lot more air in. When running the truck empty, boost only happens ~2 - 3% of the time, usually during acceleration events. The reason you get additional power, even with the engine running under the NA situation 97 - 98% of the time, is the intake configuration change (the Whipple Intake), a larger throttle body (150MM?) and a tune on 91 octane along with larger injectors. This significantly increases the stock motor output without the added boost. From my experience during normal driving, even with fairly aggressive acceleration, the boost rarely kicks in.

So under normal operations and when I was experience the flare shift was very light throttle and lower speeds; at these levels there is not much difference from the engine output and performance than a stock motor.


Whipple Tune does include transmission optimization.


The flare shift in the 3 - 4; 4 - 5 is a common complaint in 7.3's with the 10 speed. Mine developed it in the 8 - 10k range. In many of the complaints I read, people would take it to the dealer, it would run great afterwards and then develop the goofy shifting again 100 - 1000 miles later. So it would shift great until the Adaptive Learning would "learn" and start modifying shift strategies. After watching many, many videos on 10R80 and 10R140 rebuilds, problems and understanding how they work, especially with the valve body configuration, it started to point to the adaptive learning process doesn't properly account for transmission break-in and pressure differences causing some of these flares. Shutting the Adaptive learning off is easy with ForScan. You can reset it and then stop it from the ForScan App on your phone.

What "valve" are you referring to in your first paragraph? I thought boost was dependent on RPM and throttle position.
Adaptive learning by the tranny is just a way to make it smoother, or more perfectly suited to the load, so that it is not shifting with enough force to hold 200 HP when we are only giving it 50 HP. Flaring is a problem with any modern programmed tranny that is getting more torque than it is programmed for, regardless of why there is more torque. For instance, my Aisin tranny was not programmable, so I had to strictly limit the Cummins tuning to prevent flaring, even though the tranny was perfectly capable of handling way more than stock Cummins torque. It had nothing to do with maximum horsepower, but flared at part throttle based on the actual input power vs the expected input power. Flaring, regardless of the blower, the intake manifold, or throttle position, or throttle body, is simply a matter of the tranny getting more torque than it is programmed to handle at the moment it shifts. Of course, at some level, there would be so much power that the tranny could not physically hold it, but I don't know what that level is with the 10 speed. This is part of why I wondered if the diesel version of the ten speed would be better suited to a blown 7.3, but programming could be tricky. On the 7.3, the computer must look at throttle position, air mass and RPM. It makes sense that after a few hundred miles or so, it has settled in to a shift hardness that suits an individual operators normal way of driving. But a sudden increase in torque, for any reason, could fool it. It sounds like Ford didn't get it quite right if stock trucks are doing it, but mine has not done it in 87,000 miles. I would be on that immediately if it did. Also, just guessing, but when turning it off or resetting it, there must be a default stiffness in the shifting, based on line pressure, that can be the normal starting point and is sufficient for stock horsepower inputs, but probably, a little stiffer than required. I like the method of shutting it off as a simple fix, but even so, it seems like it might not handle the big torque while being blown, or even possibly with a larger throttle body. I gather, from your explanation, that the increase in power at anything less than high RPM, is only because of a different throttle body and injectors. Is that what you are saying? Of course, manifold pressure above atmospheric, matched with more fuel is what gives the big hp gain. It seems there must be new fueling map too.

 

[Modman]

What "valve" are you referring to in your first paragraph?

I'm talking a bit out of my element since I'm not intimately familiar with the Whipple setup. Most modern s/c applications have a bypass valve so the airflow "bypasses" the blower under a set load threshold. Usually it's not rpm related. The one I had on my centrifugal s/c was triggered by vacuum - the throttle plate opens to a certain point and you get boost. Light loads, therefore higher vacuum, and you stay out of the boost.

This was before VCT and ETB calibrations so it may be more complicated nowadays...

 

[VB!]

The Whipple doesn't work quite like that. The engine remains Normally Aspirated up until the point you call for Boost. Then a valve opens and allows the supercharger to put a lot more air in. When running the truck empty, boost only happens ~2 - 3% of the time, usually during acceleration events. The reason you get additional power, even with the engine running under the NA situation 97 - 98% of the time, is the intake configuration change (the Whipple Intake), a larger throttle body (150MM?) and a tune on 91 octane along with larger injectors. This significantly increases the stock motor output without the added boost. From my experience during normal driving, even with fairly aggressive acceleration, the boost rarely kicks in.

When you mention it being under boost or not under boost, is this determined by a gauge, sound, or, feel?

It brings up more questions I forgot to ask Whipple. Does the computer know the amount of boost? (I think it would.) Is that data available to the driver?

Our Ecoboost Mustang as a display setting that lets you see boost or vacuum and how much. I like it.

 

[xler8r]

@GT-SD much apreesh! Thats certainly encouraging that idle and "traffic" conditions even aren't taking a hit, maybe even getting a benefit. I've been in 2-3 hours of traffic before and noticed how the economy really takes a hit; they don't like sitting still for sure.

Dumb question as I'm not a mechanic... anyone know why there isn't a turbo charger product being made by like Garrett, for instance?