Traction Bars

[Devenhallen]

Thanks for confirming it's a suspension system.

Actually I said system, I left suspension out of it.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Okay...ya got me. Still waiting on that link to your "thread".

 

[LePewPewsicle010]

Not taking anyone's side here. But when he offered information of the joint/system and it's weaknesses, did you do any research? These are open forums and you're asking opinions of folks here. You're not obligated to agree with these opinions.

I find it best to research people's ideas/experiences/opinions, and from there build my own ideal solution. Arguing doesn't accomplish much.

Yes, and I acknowledged its weakness in general. How much angulation it can handle before it binds or destroys itself is determined by the stiffness of the bushings, its overall construction, and its intended lifespan. I don't know what kind or how stiff the bushings used in this application vs for a TTB front end but it does seem like it has some additional o-rings compared to a TTB radius arm so I don't know how one can make the conclusion that it is as limited as he wants to claim as "fact".

I have reiterated that the rear suspension on my truck is stock and will remain stock so bringing up how it's not used on some "serious" off road builds is not relevant to my application. I care more that it is effective at what it does, doesn’t limit wheel travel, is discreet, and doesn't hurt ride quality. I drive this truck almost every day and have two toddler seats in the back. I don't want the rear to be any stiffer than it is now. I do want it to shift more smoothly and without fear that I am going to destroy my rear u joints if I dip into the torque that this thing puts out. This is why I asked for people with experience and feedback and it would appear that it does work as intended.

I asked what was wrong with OUO and got some cryptic answer. From my limited search, OUO seems to have a decent reputation, just like PMF, Carli, etc. Searching the forum brings up the same characters badmouthing the same companies with little substance, which I would probably chalk up to people wanting to defend and justify what they spent their money on. If there is something terribly wrong with them, I'm all ears.

 

[TremorKR]

You asked for feedback and you got it. He actually gave you a few reasons why someone would not go with OUO, but youd have to go back and read, no sense in writing it again. He even offered to dm and give you a call, as to not bash companies online. That's a pretty stand up move.

I'm happy that you like the OUO. They seem solid and should work for you.

FWIW, did a small amount of research on break. I didn't see many forums about people complaining OUO, actually more praise and love of their products. The only reason I would knock OUO currently is because of their websites "us vs them" page where they openly mock companies Carli/PMF. That business practice alone is enough to scare me away. A proper tactic is to mention why your products are superior to the general "competition". Not discredit them by name through insults and subjective ideas.

I wonder how many other suspension companies openly do that on their website? Maybe they don't have to try to discredit others for sales?

 

[HeavyAssault]

That business practice alone is enough to scare me away.

Not discredit them by name through insults and subjective ideas.

PSA to all: Don't run anything from Banks Performance. Gale LOVES to bash companies. To the point it's very reasonable to say HE LOVES BASHING companies.

 

[TremorKR]

PSA to all: Don't run anything from Banks Performance. Gale LOVES to bash companies. To the point it's very reasonable to say HE LOVES BASHING companies.

He does so with some science and is usually quite insightful. But ya, I don't and wouldn't run banks.

 

[DrSpeed]

Like every thing in life, there are compromises. Radius arm bushings operating within their designed range of motion are plenty strong for this application and they should last a while. They do not like to operate outside their design envelope so if you go down that path, you will need to look at a different type of joint or modifications to bring it back inside that envelope. It's been a few decades, but the one's in my '96 Bronco had to be replaced around 100k. Spherical rod ends are great when you need increased motion and do look prettier but also come with other attributes that may not be wanted in a daily driven vehicle. For a F250 Tremor that will have mostly stock rear suspension, I fail to see how using those type of bushing in a traction bar will be a limit in the suspension.

Maybe I have been out of the Ford scene for a while but I don't really understand your hatred for OUO but then again, I don't really have blind loyalty to any company that I don't own a personal stake in. PMF does look like they make some nice stuff, but the entire thought process that just because one company has been doing it a while implies no else is able to boggles my mind.

Well said. The TTB Radius arm bushing has a large amount of angular travel, and translated to a 4 foot long traction bar - the math works out to:

30 degrees of angle change in the Traction Bar = 28 inches of suspension travel.

Stock truck has less than 14 inches of rear wheel travel (see photo below) - so the TTB bushing works wonderfully in this application.

No need for a rod end that needs to be maintain, will clank and rust, as well get loose over time.

First photo is my truck brand new with 400 miles, no traction bar, and a forklift.

 

[LePewPewsicle010]

You asked for feedback and you got it. He actually gave you a few reasons why someone would not go with OUO, but youd have to go back and read, no sense in writing it again. He even offered to dm and give you a call, as to not bash companies online. That's a pretty stand up move.

I'm happy that you like the OUO. They seem solid and should work for you.

FWIW, did a small amount of research on break. I didn't see many forums about people complaining OUO, actually more praise and love of their products. The only reason I would knock OUO currently is because of their websites "us vs them" page where they openly mock companies Carli/PMF. That business practice alone is enough to scare me away. A proper tactic is to mention why your products are superior to the general "competition". Not discredit them by name through insults and subjective ideas.

I wonder how many other suspension companies openly do that on their website? Maybe they don't have to try to discredit others for sales?

That kind of marketing doesn't really bother me as long as if their products actually work as intended, but I do see how it can rub someone the wrong way. I honestly glossed over most of it and went straight to the actual description and details. I can't say that I like or dislike OUO because I don't own any of their products. I do like their design philosophy (at least for the parts I was looking at) which would appear to utilize more OE style joints and rubber bushing to maintain drivability and longevity, something I value in a daily driven vehicle. Others may not which is why it's nice to have options. As far as taking a phone call, I don't make it a habit of giving my number to people I have never met in person. If a company does lie and deceive customers, the evidence should be put on the forum to warn others and is kind of the point of asking for feedback on this kind of medium. I will say that the big reason why I was considering PMF is I read comments like "PMF makes the best parts for these trucks" but I really wasn't that impressed with what I saw to pull the trigger so I kept looking.

 

[Devenhallen]

Well said. The TTB Radius arm bushing has a large amount of angular travel, and translated to a 4 foot long traction bar - the math works out to:

30 degrees of angle change in the Traction Bar = 28 inches of suspension travel.

Stock truck has less than 14 inches of rear wheel travel (see photo below) - so the TTB bushing works wonderfully in this application.

No need for a rod end that needs to be maintain, will clank and rust, as well get loose over time.

First photo is my truck brand new with 400 miles, no traction bar, and a forklift.

If you could get 28" of suspension travel out of this kind of joint, they wouldn't be ditching them at 10" of travel in every offroad suspension upgrade from every company. They bind.

 

[Devenhallen]

That kind of marketing doesn't really bother me as long as if their products actually work as intended, but I do see how it can rub someone the wrong way. I honestly glossed over most of it and went straight to the actual description and details. I can't say that I like or dislike OUO because I don't own any of their products. I do like their design philosophy (at least for the parts I was looking at) which would appear to utilize more OE style joints and rubber bushing to maintain drivability and longevity, something I value in a daily driven vehicle. Others may not which is why it's nice to have options. As far as taking a phone call, I don't make it a habit of giving my number to people I have never met in person. If a company does lie and deceive customers, the evidence should be put on the forum to warn others and is kind of the point of asking for feedback on this kind of medium. I will say that the big reason why I was considering PMF is I read comments like "PMF makes the best parts for these trucks" but I really wasn't that impressed with what I saw to pull the trigger so I kept looking.

There is usually a reason someone limits their "marketing" to phone calls and wont put it in writing on a public forum.
What werent you impressed about with PMF parts? Ive ran them on 5 different vehicles on a variety of trucks. Every part is the best engineered part Ive touched and ive built hundreds of trucks utilizing parts from about every manufacture.

 

[DrSpeed]

If you could get 28" of suspension travel out of this kind of joint, they wouldn't be ditching them at 10" of travel in every offroad suspension upgrade from every company. They bind.

It seems as though you have a bone to pick, and that's okay. Quite frankly, I don't understand what you are saying above. In any case, that's okay.

What I've done is calculate the change in angle of a joint with respect to wheel travel, and evidence of how much a stock truck flexes.

The goal is to have the OP @LePewPewsicle010 and other forum members make educated decisions on what works best, by providing objective data.

The key criteria is OEM comfort, quiet, and no reduction in ride quality. Using an OEM designed joint with modern rubber bushing selection creates a solution that works well, that requires nearly no maintenance - vs a tractor joint that clanks, requires constant adjustment and tightening, and rebuilding when road debris (salt, sand, dirt, etc) gets into it.

The joint works well for this specific application. No additional road noise or harshness, no deterioration in ride quality.

 

[LePewPewsicle010]

There is usually a reason someone limits their "marketing" to phone calls and wont put it in writing on a public forum.
What werent you impressed about with PMF parts? Ive ran them on 5 different vehicles on a variety of trucks. Every part is the best engineered part Ive touched and ive built hundreds of trucks utilizing parts from about every manufacture.

I said I wasn't impressed with PMF's traction bars. Their offering isn't that much different than what people have been making and installing on all kinds of cars and trucks for decades. They may be a fantastic product, just didn't do enough for me to not consider alternatives.

 

[Motohead]

Here is a small review of OUO on my 2023 KR Tremor:

On the rear full pack leaf springs acted as expected (Note: All of our Super Duties had full pack Deaver leaf springs) which is great, However, when we added the one up off-road traction bars, it made a world of difference. We noticed the rear braking stopped harder, hard acceleration is much smoother and less (hard to describe) rocking when rock crawling. Dave might be able to explain better than me.

 

[deathfromafar17]

Ive written better posts sloppy drunk that made sense and had evidence defending my points. I dont know crap about traction bars or vehicle suspension but I do know that just because someone has done a lot of something doesnt mean they are worth a shit at it.

This forum exists to pass information, viewpoints, and entertainment. Why would you be afraid to post "evidence" or factual information about something? Lol you could call someone then they could post the recording of it

Rant over, back to your scheduled programing.

 

[LePewPewsicle010]

Here is a small review of OUO on my 2023 KR Tremor:

On the rear full pack leaf springs acted as expected (Note: All of our Super Duties had full pack Deaver leaf springs) which is great, However, when we added the one up off-road traction bars, it made a world of difference. We noticed the rear braking stopped harder, hard acceleration is much smoother and less (hard to describe) rocking when rock crawling. Dave might be able to explain better than me.

Truck looks awesome!

 

[Motohead]

Truck looks awesome!

Thank you LepewPewsicle010