thank god for the winch

[Loshad]

Yeah, my '16 F150 only has to move a few feet.

So are we certain that the dash doesn't accurately display that you're locked? You're saying it will display that you're in 4H but that you really aren't?

 

[Raspy]

Manual hubs are great, and they are the only way to absolutely lock the front wheels in. They either lock when you turn the handle, right then, or as soon as the axle turns at a slightly different speed than the wheel. Such as when stuck or turning.

They work by a spring pushing on a sliding collar that engages two splines. This allows you to always be able to turn the knob, and for them to pop in as soon as they line up.

When stuck, you will never have a time when you are spinning the rears and the fronts are waiting to engage. The fronts will engage instantly, when the axle turns at a different speed than the wheel, or when you actually turn the knob.

If you are going up to the mountains, or out into some mud, engage the hubs before you get there. This lubes up the gears and everything will be ready when you need it. While on the highway, you can engage 4 high while rolling if you get into some snow.

I'd consider the vacuum hub system to be a convenience that lets you stay in the truck if you happen to get stuck unexpectedly, but not as a normal way of running the front axle, or as a way to drive for miles in the snow.

In an F150 , a Wrangler, a Ram, or a Chevy, where you don't have manual hubs, the engagement is a different process. If there is a center axle disconnect, a CAD, it has to engage as well as the transfer case. And it has to happen smoothly, so there is a delay, or you have to stop. Without a CAD, 4 high can simply be engaged on the fly with no delay, but the front diff is always turning whether you need it or not.

Some old International pickups had "automatic" hubs. These worked by having an overunning clutch in each hub that sensed if the axle was turning faster than the wheel. Then it would engage. But it would disengage if no power was being applied, so it was not reliable for holding back. It was only good for getting unstuck. If using 4WD for longer periods or while out exploring, they worked best if manually engaged with the knob on the hub.

For heavy duty trucks, like the Super Duty, manual hubs are the best of all, and very "old school". Vacuum hubs are just a modern way to make them more convenient. but it can never be as reliable. One of the reasons I bought a Tremor was that it has manual hubs. Ram doesn't.

If you think you are going to need 4WD, engage the hubs manually before you get there.

 

[Jking]

Manual hubs are great, and they are the only way to absolutely lock the front wheels in. They either lock when you turn the handle, right then, or as soon as the axle turns at a slightly different speed than the wheel. Such as when stuck or turning.

They work by a spring pushing on a sliding collar that engages two splines. This allows you to always be able to turn the knob, and for them to pop in as soon as they line up.

when stuck, you will never have a time when you are spinning the rears and the front are waiting to engage. The fronts will engage instantly, when the axle turns at a different speed than the wheel, or when you actually turn the knob.

If you are going up to the mountains, or out into some mud, engage the hubs before you get there. This lubes up the gears and everything will be ready when you need it. While on the highway, you can engage 4 high while rolling if you get into some snow.

I'd consider the vacuum hub system to be a convenience that lets you stay in the truck if you happen to get stuck unexpectedly, but not as a normal way of running the front axle, or as a way to drive for miles in the snow.

In an F150 , a Wrangler, a Ram, or a Chevy, where you don't have manual hubs, the engagement is a different process. If there is a center axle disconnect, a CAD, that has to engage as well as the transfer case. And it has to happen smoothly, so there is a delay, or you have to stop. Without a CAD, 4 high can simply be engaged on the fly with no delay, bt the front diff is always turning whether you need it or not.

Some old International pickups had "automatic" hubs. These worked by having an overunning clutch in each hub that sensed if the axle was turning faster than the wheel. Then it would engage. But it would disengage if no power was being applied, so it was not reliable for holding back. It was only good for getting unstuck. If using 4WD for longer periods or while out exploring, the y had to be manually engaged wit the knob

For heavy duty trucks, like the Super Duty, manual hubs are the best of all, and very "old school". Vacuum hubs are just a modern way to make them more convenient. but it can never be as reliable. One of the reasons I bought a Tremor was that it has manual hubs. Ram doesn't.

If you think you are going to need 4WD, engage the hubs manually before you get there.

Thanks. So it would be fine to do like we used to in the late 80's. When we went hunting, we would stop and lock the hubs as soon as we left the pavement. We may or may not use the 4wd during the course of a day, then we would unlock when we got back to the paved road.

 

[Raspy]

Thanks. So it would be fine to do like we used to in the late 80's. When we went hunting, we would stop and lock the hubs as soon as we left the pavement. We may or may not use the 4wd during the course of a day, then we would unlock when we got back to the paved road.

That is how they should be used. Only use them in automatic, if you get stuck somewhere by surprise. I used to engage them at home before I left. Then, on the way up the mountain, on the highway, the system was always ready to go.

In the Sierra, it's easy to find a section of highway with almost no traction, while on the way up. As soon as you feel the slip, back off the throttle and engage the front. Slow down and enjoy the ride. At that point, you know the traction is very limited, but you can keep going. On dark highways in the middle of the night, you can fined sections of black ice. Watch the road surface conditions carefully. As soon as the rear slips, slow down and engage the front. I frequently test for traction if i'm not sure, by stepping on the gas to test it. Always leave extra room in front for reduced stopping ability.

 

[Jking]

That is how they should be used. Only use them in automatic, if you get stuck somewhere by surprise. I used to engage them at home before I left. Then, on the way up the mountain, on the highway, the system was always ready to go.

In the Sierra, it's easy to find a section of highway with almost no traction, while on the way up. As soon as you feel the slip, back off the throttle and engage the front. Slow down and enjoy the ride. At that point, you know the traction is very limited, but you can keep going. On dark highways in the middle of the night, you can fined sections of black ice. Watch the road surface conditions carefully. As soon as the rear slips, slow down and engage the front. I frequently test for traction if i'm not sure, by stepping on the gas to test it. Always leave extra room in front for reduced stopping ability.

Cool. We never had any trouble with using manual locking hubs when that was all there was. Now that I understand it, I think its fine now too. In fact, I remember people freaking out about automatic hubs and spending large amounts of money to change them out in the aftermarket when the autos were first coming out. Seems like that must have been early to mid 90's when I was just starting to drive and didn't care much as long as the radio was loud.

 

[kingdeserttremor]

1 week into ownership and I had to winch out of some mud today. I was really surprised to get stuck in this stuff as I know my rubicon would have laughed at it. I guess an 8000lb truck just behaves differently in muc.... it wasn't deep just super slick and mostly clay. it totally caked my tires and I was just spinning. These stock tires are absolute trash for mud.

I had pulled down a small dirt road after these heavy rains and when I turned around to leave I started spinning. Popped it in 4Hi and figured it would be a piece of cake, but I couldn't move. Same in 4Lo.

I was with my 5 year old son and he was panicking thinking we would be stuck forever lol. We were like 2 miles from home ?

After trying and spinning for a few mins wondering what the fuck i was gonna do my brain was like "dude you have a winch"...All the winch shit was under the rear seat and I've never used one before other than on an atv. Luckily I had ordered snatch blocks and had mostly everything I needed. I look up and see a giant tree about 45 feet directly ahead of me and figured it was as good a time as any to test it out.

Got her set up and it just yanked it right out easy peasy.

Need to go test it out and make sure my hubs actually locked in auto mode, bc I was shocked to get stuck in that mud. It wasn't like some giant deep mud puddle or anything. I never thought to go out and manually lock the hubs. When I got out the rear wheel wells were caked with mud, but the fronts not so much. If the auto hubs don't lock does it throw an error message?


Anyone have a good way to test if 4wd is working? I read you can do really tight circles on dry pavement at like 1-2 mph is 2wd and then in 4wd and should easily feel the difference but could a quick test like that bind up the driveline to the point of breaking something?

Dawg on it! I did my level best to “Test out my winch” this morning... lol unfortunately or is it fortunately my system worked and I piled through some serious mud ponds. This thing is a monster! I’m bringing someone to take pics next time as these do nothing in comparison ... trust Ford got your vacuum issue resolved!

 

[RAVAGE88]

Question for those saying that you have to move to engage the hubs. Is it different than a 2015 f150? I regularly back out into the snow without thinking about it and the back spins. I turn the knob and it shifts into 4wd and off I go. I definitely don't have to drive 100 feet to engage my hubs. I don't know how the automatic hubs work to knowmifmits a different mechanism or what, but I definitely wouldn't have thought about needing to manually lock them in OP's circumstance.

In all of the shift-on-the-fly 4WD Fords I've owned, just a little forward movement was all I needed. If you gauge the distance relative to the amount of time it says, "Shifting To 4WD" on the display, that could easily be 100 feet depending on the rate of speed, but not likely it took that much distance to fully engage.

MB

 

[jhblaze1]

In order for auto hubs to lock, you have to have some forward movement. If you can’t move, lock them manually.

MB

I know. I noted that I turned the knob 100 yards before entering the mud. 100 yards of forward movement ought to be enough

 

[jhblaze1]

Question for those saying that you have to move to engage the hubs. Is it different than a 2015 f150? I regularly back out into the snow without thinking about it and the back spins. I turn the knob and it shifts into 4wd and off I go. I definitely don't have to drive 100 feet to engage my hubs. I don't know how the automatic hubs work to knowmifmits a different mechanism or what, but I definitely wouldn't have thought about needing to manually lock them in OP's circumstance.

Agree. Every shift on the fly truck I've ever owned had auto locking hubs with no manual override option and the hubs have never failed to lock even when the vehicle was already stuck. I used to live in snowy New England and would back into my sloped driveway. We'd get 2 feet of snow and I'd go out pop it in 4 and drive right out. No need for forward movement first which would have been impossible anyway.

In my case it's obvious there is a problem with the vacuum lines or the switch.

 

[jhblaze1]

Yeah, my '16 F150 only has to move a few feet.

So are we certain that the dash doesn't accurately display that you're locked? You're saying it will display that you're in 4H but that you really aren't?

Exactly. Dash says 4 hi throws no error but there's no power to the fronts. Yet if I jump out and lock them, off she goes, driving thru the mud like it's not even there. So clearly it's not a transfer case issue. My best guess is a disconnected vacuum like or leaking line or a bad switch.

 

[Raspy]

Exactly. Dash says 4 hi throws no error but there's no power to the fronts. Yet if I jump out and lock them, off she goes, driving thru the mud like it's not even there. So clearly it's not a transfer case issue. My best guess is a disconnected vacuum like or leaking line or a bad switch.

It seems pretty clear there is something going on with the vacuum system. This could be a number of things. Easiest to check would be to look at the vacuum lines down at the axle and see if one is disconnected. You could also unplug the vacuum line and put a gauge on it, then put the truck in 4WD and see if there is vacuum at the gauge. There is a seal in the axle that holds the vacuum and allows the hub to engage. If this seal is bad, the system won't work. Unfortunately, I think it requires removing the yoke assembly to get to it, as it seals the stationary yoke to the spinning axle. So the seal is hard to replace. You might be able to spray some soapy water in that areas and hear it suck in around the seal, I don't know.

If it designed to be engaged while rolling, or shift on the fly, it has to engage before the transfer case does. I don't have mine yet, so I don't know if it is shift on the fly or not. But I would not trust it if it is.

 

[jhblaze1]

It seems pretty clear there is something going on with the vacuum system. This could be a number of things. Easiest to check would be to look at the vacuum lines down at the axle and see if one is disconnected. You could also unplug the vacuum line and put a gauge on it, then put the truck in 4WD and see if there is vacuum at the gauge. There is a seal in the axle that holds the vacuum and allows the hub to engage. If this seal is bad, the system won't work. Unfortunately, I think it requires removing the yoke assembly to get to it, as it seals the stationary yoke to the spinning axle. So the seal is hard to replace. You might be able to spray some soapy water in that areas and hear it suck in around the seal, I don't know.

If it designed to be engaged while rolling, or shift on the fly, it has to engage before the transfer case does. I don't have mine yet, so I don't know if it is shift on the fly or not. But I would not trust it if it is.

Yeah I have a call in to service. I'm not messing around with it. I will go out and see if a line is disconnected but that's about it.

Truck is fine otherwise and since it's not the xfer case I'm not worried. Warranty will resolve. Just annoyed at the inconvenience of having to bring it in and be without it for several days. I expect they'll diagnose it quickly but then I'll get a call that they don't have a part and there's a part shortage and this will drag on for weeks. Oh well, that's life.

 

[Raspy]

Yeah I have a call in to service. I'm not messing around with it. I will go out and see if a line is disconnected but that's about it.

Truck is fine otherwise and since it's not the xfer case I'm not worried. Warranty will resolve. Just annoyed at the inconvenience of having to bring it in and be without it for several days. I expect they'll diagnose it quickly but then I'll get a call that they don't have a part and there's a part shortage and this will drag on for weeks. Oh well, that's life.

I hope it doesn't drag out. Around here, when I go in for service, they'll schedule me, but that is just the check-in time and has nothing to do with when the work starts. Very annoying as it's over a hundred miles round trip to the dealer. Parts availability seems to be a real problem these days too. Why is that?

 

[Loshad]

"Very annoying as it's over a hundred miles round trip to the dealer."

Dang! You that far from Elko?

 

[jhblaze1]

I hope it doesn't drag out. Around here, when I go in for service, they'll schedule me, but that is just the check-in time and has nothing to do with when the work starts. Very annoying as it's over a hundred miles round trip to the dealer. Parts availability seems to be a real problem these days too. Why is that?

Seems KungFlu is an excuse for everything.

I also have a squeak in the front end when I go over speed bumps at anything more than a crawl so I'm having them look at that too. Surely just some lube needed somewhere but I'll leave it to them to figure out where.

 

[Raspy]

"Very annoying as it's over a hundred miles round trip to the dealer."

Dang! You that far from Elko?

Carson City

 

[RickLB]

You might ask @Fordseniormaster he might have info on it.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I know. I noted that I turned the knob 100 yards before entering the mud. 100 yards of forward movement ought to be enough

Yessir, certainly more than enough. I'm sure the issue is easily resolved, as the system is pretty simple.

MB

 

[1337logan]

I know. I noted that I turned the knob 100 yards before entering the mud. 100 yards of forward movement ought to be enough

This is not the behavior I've encountered with the tremor 4wd. Mine engages via the knob pretty quickly--within feet, i.e., just a few rotations it seems like. Perhaps there's something wrong with yours if it's taking 100's of yards...

 

[RAVAGE88]

This is not the behavior I've encountered with the tremor 4wd. Mine engages via the knob pretty quickly--within feet, i.e., just a few rotations it seems like. Perhaps there's something wrong with yours if it's taking 100's of yards...

Mine does too, as have all the previous Ford trucks I've had.

MB