Short Commutes On A Diesel?

[TremorKR]

There are a couple of videos out by people much smarter than me saying that high idle on a diesel is not a good thing. They claim it leads to excessive engine wear.

Interesting.. I'm definitely gonna have to look into that. We run high idle switches in our trucks up here. Its especially helpful on the plow rigs as they will drop below a good operating temp when idling and kick on the factory high idle. For me I prefer to just flip on our switch and keep it at a more ideal operating temp. Plus better oil pressure at idle I figured would reduce wear to some extent and also reduce wet stacking from incomplete combustion. However you could argue 1000rpm vs 750rpm that the higher rpm is wearing 33% quicker.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Gas or diesel, drive long enough to get the oil up to operating temperature. Even if you have to take the scenic route.

 

[Phil314]

Even if you have to take the scenic route.

Exactly this. Once a week go to a donut shop that is 11 miles in the wrong direction. Bring donuts back for your coworkers.
Your truck will be happy and so will your coworkers.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Exactly this. Once a week go to a donut shop that is 11 miles in the wrong direction. Bring donuts back for your coworkers.
Your truck will be happy and so will your coworkers.

I could eat a dozen donuts in 22 miles.

 

[Luckster]

Exactly this. Once a week go to a donut shop that is 11 miles in the wrong direction. Bring donuts back for your coworkers.
Your truck will be happy and so will your coworkers.

Damn. Great response

 

[Canyon Trekker]

Purchasing a new diesel truck soon and have some questions regarding my daily commute. My daily commute is about 11 miles one way or 15/20 minutes. Any advice to avoid issues with truck in the long run? I know there are better alternatives than to commute with a diesel, respectfully thats not really the type of advice I am looking for. what is the best way to make this work? If y'all wouldn’t mind sharing some tips or helpful suggestions I would appreciate it.


Thanks,

For the first year I owned the 22 with diesel, I commuted every day about the same, 11 miles. About once a week or so, (sometimes longer) it would do a regen on the way home after being warmed up in the morning and sitting in the hot CA sun every day at work. I've never had a problem, the regen most always completed by the time I got home, and on the rare occasion it didn't it started to regen again the next day. I'm now retired, and my commutes are short, but I occasionally just go for a ride to Tahoe, Donner, or some other place and let it burn. (About every 500 miles or so) My truck still runs perfect; I do the regular maintenance on time and make sure everything is working under the hood routinely. I use high idle occasionally for different purposes and have all kinds of bells and whistles I've added drawing on the batteries and system. This is the best truck I've ever owned.

The newer diesels have a passive routine unlike the 22 and are no doubt better equipped to run daily as in a job site. I don't think you need to worry about it. Depending on where you live in CA, there are always mountains to help it to go into regen if you desire. Just enjoy the truck.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Thanks for the advice. Would you also recommend a high idle switch? Warm up faster?

Not necessarily faster, it just ramps up the RPMs. No different than if you were sitting in the truck pressing the pedal while in Park. Just leave the house earlier and drive the snot out of the truck.

 

[Luckster]

For the first year I owned the 22 with diesel, I commuted every day about the same, 11 miles. About once a week or so, (sometimes longer) it would do a regen on the way home after being warmed up in the morning and sitting in the hot CA sun every day at work. I've never had a problem, the regen most always completed by the time I got home, and on the rare occasion it didn't it started to regen again the next day. I'm now retired, and my commutes are short, but I occasionally just go for a ride to Tahoe, Donner, or some other place and let it burn. (About every 500 miles or so) My truck still runs perfect; I do the regular maintenance on time and make sure everything is working under the hood routinely. I use high idle occasionally for different purposes and have all kinds of bells and whistles I've added drawing on the batteries and system. This is the best truck I've ever owned.

The newer diesels have a passive routine unlike the 22 and are no doubt better equipped to run daily as in a job site. I don't think you need to worry about it. Depending on where you live in CA, there are always mountains to help it to go into regen if you desire. Just enjoy the truck.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[4wheelgreg]

I’m a diehard diesel guy and went 7.3 on my latest 2024 f350 , if you really don’t need the extra torque diesels have become problematic and expensive. I have another non DEF diesel but this go around tried the 7.3 and really like it .If I have this truck long enough to wear out the 7.3 I would replace it with a cummins would make the perfect power plant for these trucks … the concept of keeping it simple has gone out the window with modern diesel engines .

 

[avocadofarmer]

If the truck isn't getting up to OP temp it isn't going to regen. It will not (ever) get up to OP temp in 11 miles unless you're towing something big. A regen typically takes 15-20 miles to complete, longer if there is stop and go traffic involved. Yes, the '23's are different but not in the sense that they will magically clear the DPF if you're never getting to OP temp.

You might get away with this for 100k miles, I don't know. But it isn't ideal. Just randomly taking it for a 50 mile drive once a month isn't likely to help much. What is likely to happen is that the truck will never get a full regen and will spend a lot of time trying to make it happen, only to be shut off mid regen. You'll be getting shit mileage. Anyone else like the idea of shutting theirs off with the EGT's at 1200F? Its not good for anything.

If I were you, I'd get Forscan, enable OCR (operator controlled regen) and watch the DPF% so you know whats going on. Despite the title, OCR doesn't let you control much. You can only stop the 'auto regen' process and hold off until you know you've got a longer drive ahead of you where the process can be completed. That truck is going to get poor mileage and fill that DPF up quick with short drives like that. I don't know what people find appealing about commuting to an office job in a 3/4 ton diesel truck.

 

[Vecman]

If the truck isn't getting up to OP temp it isn't going to regen. It will not (ever) get up to OP temp in 11 miles unless you're towing something big. A regen typically takes 15-20 miles to complete, longer if there is stop and go traffic involved. Yes, the '23's are different but not in the sense that they will magically clear the DPF if you're never getting to OP temp.

You might get away with this for 100k miles, I don't know. But it isn't ideal. Just randomly taking it for a 50 mile drive once a month isn't likely to help much. What is likely to happen is that the truck will never get a full regen and will spend a lot of time trying to make it happen, only to be shut off mid regen. You'll be getting shit mileage. Anyone else like the idea of shutting theirs off with the EGT's at 1200F? Its not good for anything.

If I were you, I'd get Forscan, enable OCR (operator controlled regen) and watch the DPF% so you know whats going on. Despite the title, OCR doesn't let you control much. You can only stop the 'auto regen' process and hold off until you know you've got a longer drive ahead of you where the process can be completed. That truck is going to get poor mileage and fill that DPF up quick with short drives like that. I don't know what people find appealing about commuting to an office job in a 3/4 ton diesel truck.

I drive to church about 3-4 miles away and as I pull into the parking lot, it’s up to temp. The OPs 11 miles is plenty of distance to get to temp, even in the winter, especially if being warmed up prior to driving . My commute to the office (where I rarely go) is 20 miles. On my old iDash, I’d watch regens being completed in less than 15-20 miles (they commonly started when I hit the freeway and completed before I exited the freeway, which is about 10-12 miles). As many have mentioned, as long as he goes on a longer drive (however frequently needed) to handle a regen when it happens, he’d be fine. Driving the diesels are incredibly fun, whether commuting or freeway or offroad. Very appealing to most of us. And sure, mileage isn’t the best when you’re doing short drives, but that applies to all vehicles, not just diesels.

 

[AZsurveyor]

If the truck isn't getting up to OP temp it isn't going to regen. It will not (ever) get up to OP temp in 11 miles unless you're towing something big. A regen typically takes 15-20 miles to complete, longer if there is stop and go traffic involved. Yes, the '23's are different but not in the sense that they will magically clear the DPF if you're never getting to OP temp.

You might get away with this for 100k miles, I don't know. But it isn't ideal. Just randomly taking it for a 50 mile drive once a month isn't likely to help much. What is likely to happen is that the truck will never get a full regen and will spend a lot of time trying to make it happen, only to be shut off mid regen. You'll be getting shit mileage. Anyone else like the idea of shutting theirs off with the EGT's at 1200F? Its not good for anything.

If I were you, I'd get Forscan, enable OCR (operator controlled regen) and watch the DPF% so you know whats going on. Despite the title, OCR doesn't let you control much. You can only stop the 'auto regen' process and hold off until you know you've got a longer drive ahead of you where the process can be completed. That truck is going to get poor mileage and fill that DPF up quick with short drives like that. I don't know what people find appealing about commuting to an office job in a 3/4 ton diesel truck.

This may not be what anyone wants to hear but this is truly on point.

It's not that there is anything wrong with driving a diesel engine, you could be driving a Volkwagon Golf for what its worth, its the emissions system that makes short commutes lethal.

Can it be done? Yes, but the side effects will accumulate over time.

With short commutes, you probably won’t rack up significant mileage quickly, if at all, to notice these effects. However, the reality is that the engine will struggle to reach 250K miles in a healthy manner.

Historically, diesel engines were renowned for their longevity and reliability. They could outlast any gasoline engine, running continuously, literally day and night with immense torque and unmatched durability. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.

In the past, big rigs could easily put on 2-3+ million miles on these Peterbuilt engines without requiring extensive rebuild work. Those times have also passed, thanks to stringent emissions regulations and the introduction of DPF systems. Nowadays, these engines are fortunate to reach half a million miles without incurring thousands of dollars in costs to repeatedly replace emissions components, while endure power reductions, and navigating through the challenges these systems impose on engine performance.

Modern diesel engines are indeed more complex, and while emissions systems help reduce pollutants, they demand specific maintenance, are prone to failures (particularly involving the emissions systems), and can significantly impact vehicle performance and operating costs overtime.

 

[Canyon Trekker]

This may not be what anyone wants to hear but this is truly on point.

It's not that there is anything wrong with driving a diesel engine, you could be driving a Volkwagon Golf for what its worth, its the emissions system that makes short commutes lethal.

Can it be done? Yes, but the side effects will accumulate over time.

With short commutes, you probably won’t rack up significant mileage quickly, if at all, to notice these effects. However, the reality is that the engine will struggle to reach 250K miles in a healthy manner.

Historically, diesel engines were renowned for their longevity and reliability. They could outlast any gasoline engine, running continuously, literally day and night with immense torque and unmatched durability. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.

In the past, big rigs could easily put on 2-3+ million miles on these Peterbuilt engines without requiring extensive rebuild work. Those times have also passed, thanks to stringent emissions regulations and the introduction of DPF systems. Nowadays, these engines are fortunate to reach half a million miles without incurring thousands of dollars in costs to repeatedly replace emissions components, while endure power reductions, and navigating through the challenges these systems impose on engine performance.

Modern diesel engines are indeed more complex, and while emissions systems help reduce pollutants, they demand specific maintenance, are prone to failures (particularly involving the emissions systems), and can significantly impact vehicle performance and operating costs overtime.

Here we go again...

It's interesting to me that there is so much "fear" of driving diesels. The DPF and DEF arguments all seem to be folklore stories with no evidence. You certainly make some good points about modern emissions, but the DPF and DEF systems are seldom a failure factor for the diesels based on the number of these engines out there. Even the fuel pump stories are prevalent in media talk, but again, no evidence that they fail prematurely, any more than any other vehicle engine based on ratios. Proper maintenance is key.

If I was to ever see a truck on the side of the road, diesel, dead because the DPF failed or caused a failure, or fuel pump disintegrated, that would be evidence. In 60 years of driving, it's mostly gasoline engines I see on the side of the road, sometimes in flames, seldom diesels. But look at the ratios... Per capita, there are far more gasoline engines than diesels so I would expect to see this ratio. It's not to say diesels can't fail nor is it that gasoline engines are prone to failure, it's to say that the ratio is probably the same. Diesels are no different than gasoline engine failure rates.

Oh, and by the way, when I see a big rig on the side of the road, in flames, it's usually brake failure not engine failure.

Fear mongering is unnecessary in either case. Both the 6.7 and the 7.3 are fantastic works of engineering. One's personal choice for one or the other is exactly that, it's a personal choice for your needs or wants. Enjoy your choice. Just know, everything mechanical will eventually die. It's physics.

 

[DFS]

My father in law has been heavy hauling his entire life and speaks often about how their big rigs used to go 2-3 million miles with very few issues. All of their newer trucks with emissions equipment require major overhauls in the 700k mile range now. Hopefully the current administration will takes steps to undo some of this nonsense.

 

[McE]

I think we can all agree the 7.3 is objectively better suited for frequent short trips. Just need to change the oil a little more often. This does not mean the 6.7 can't handle it.

 

[AZsurveyor]

Here we go again...

It's interesting to me that there is so much "fear" of driving diesels. The DPF and DEF arguments all seem to be folklore stories with no evidence. You certainly make some good points about modern emissions, but the DPF and DEF systems are seldom a failure factor for the diesels based on the number of these engines out there. Even the fuel pump stories are prevalent in media talk, but again, no evidence that they fail prematurely, any more than any other vehicle engine based on ratios. Proper maintenance is key.

If I was to ever see a truck on the side of the road, diesel, dead because the DPF failed or caused a failure, or fuel pump disintegrated, that would be evidence. In 60 years of driving, it's mostly gasoline engines I see on the side of the road, sometimes in flames, seldom diesels. But look at the ratios... Per capita, there are far more gasoline engines than diesels so I would expect to see this ratio. It's not to say diesels can't fail nor is it that gasoline engines are prone to failure, it's to say that the ratio is probably the same. Diesels are no different than gasoline engine failure rates.

Oh, and by the way, when I see a big rig on the side of the road, in flames, it's usually brake failure not engine failure.

Fear mongering is unnecessary in either case. Both the 6.7 and the 7.3 are fantastic works of engineering. One's personal choice for one or the other is exactly that, it's a personal choice for your needs or wants. Enjoy your choice. Just know, everything mechanical will eventually die. It's physics.

Your hypothesis may not fully encapsulate the complexities of the real world, as there is much more to consider than merely observing broken-down vehicles on the side of the road. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and interpretations, and my intention was not to offend but to share realistic anecdotes based on actual observations.

My experience is rooted from over 30 years of personal experience driving and being around various types of diesel engines. I've gained valuable insights from family members who are professional diesel mechanics and own their own service shops, giving me access to practical, first hand-on knowledge. My intention in sharing this information is simply to convey what I know to be accurate based on extensive experience, and I sincerely apologize if this has caused any offense. The last thing I want to do is spread false information.

Given the potential for differing viewpoints on this topic, I recommend visiting a diesel mechanic shop to gain firsthand knowledge and experience. Observing the inner workings and common issues of modern diesel engines in a professional setting which could provide a clearer understanding of their real-world operation. Speak to an actual diesel mechanic.

Is it fair to compare OTR rigs to light-duty rigs? Perhaps not, but as mentioned in my earlier posts, the real wear and tear become evident when you accumulate hundreds of thousands of miles. This is something that most typical Tremor owners are unlikely to experience not to mention they are so new still, which often leads to the kind of magazine talk you've described.

The average Tremor in these forums might not reach 100K for a few more years.

Lastly, there’s a solid reason why the military avoids implementing emissions systems on their diesel service vehicles.

 

[PrincetonFox]

Same commute here bro. My simple answer was to get the BANKS iDash, it will tell you exactly when you will go into a active regen "ACT". I know the day before typically and just take a leisure trip somewhere until the iDash says Regen is "OFF". I get a full fun planned maybe some doughnuts too regen.

 

[Canyon Trekker]

Your hypothesis may not fully encapsulate the complexities of the real world, as there is much more to consider than merely observing broken-down vehicles on the side of the road. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and interpretations, and my intention was not to offend but to share realistic anecdotes based on actual observations.

My experience is rooted from over 30 years of personal experience driving and being around various types of diesel engines. I've gained valuable insights from family members who are professional diesel mechanics and own their own service shops, giving me access to practical, first hand-on knowledge. My intention in sharing this information is simply to convey what I know to be accurate based on extensive experience, and I sincerely apologize if this has caused any offense. The last thing I want to do is spread false information.

Given the potential for differing viewpoints on this topic, I recommend visiting a diesel mechanic shop to gain firsthand knowledge and experience. Observing the inner workings and common issues of modern diesel engines in a professional setting which could provide a clearer understanding of their real-world operation. Speak to an actual diesel mechanic.

Is it fair to compare OTR rigs to light-duty rigs? Perhaps not, but as mentioned in my earlier posts, the real wear and tear become evident when you accumulate hundreds of thousands of miles. This is something that most typical Tremor owners are unlikely to experience not to mention they are so new still, which often leads to the kind of magazine talk you've described.

The average Tremor in these forums might not reach 100K for a few more years.

Lastly, there’s a solid reason why the military avoids implementing emissions systems on their diesel service vehicles.

Your opinions are very valuable to me. There aren't many people that put their trucks through what you do, and your insights are spot on. I know you do extensive maintenance to your truck to keep it going, you have said this on numerous occasions. I always respect what you have to say, I wasn't offended by your inputs at all. I simply wanted to express that there are some false pretenses out there.

I too have friends who are diesel mechanics, and my son owns his own repair business. What these people see are the failures, not the success stories.

I can tell you that in the repair industry of any commodity, from flashlights to light analyzers, what the technicians see are the "failures" which typically caused through some sort of negligence.

I too, worked in a repair facility as a master tech for many years and most of the repairs were the result of someone doing something wrong to the instrument. Instruments that would cost .5-2 million dollars each. There are no limits on what people will do wrong when it's not their equipment or don't respect the maintenance schedules. The only thing that keeps the ratio down in these cases are the mandated maintenance schedule for this equipment through government control and inspections. Much of the equipment was used by the military or contractors.

You are spot on about the emissions causing premature death in engines but his goes for the gas engines as well. The military is a perfect example of what needs to be done, look out for the equipment that helps you do your job correctly and treat it well.

Much respect.

 

[Canyon Trekker]

Same commute here bro. My simple answer was to get the BANKS iDash, it will tell you exactly when you will go into a active regen "ACT". I know the day before typically and just take a leisure trip somewhere until the iDash says Regen is "OFF". I get a full fun planned maybe some doughnuts too regen.

I've recently been looking at these, @HeavyAssault has a really cool setup, (not Banks) still looking at both systems to see what best works for me. I like the Banks small footprint.

 

[Fozzy]

Here we go again...

It's interesting to me that there is so much "fear" of driving diesels. The DPF and DEF arguments all seem to be folklore stories with no evidence. You certainly make some good points about modern emissions, but the DPF and DEF systems are seldom a failure factor for the diesels based on the number of these engines out there. Even the fuel pump stories are prevalent in media talk, but again, no evidence that they fail prematurely, any more than any other vehicle engine based on ratios. Proper maintenance is key.

If I was to ever see a truck on the side of the road, diesel, dead because the DPF failed or caused a failure, or fuel pump disintegrated, that would be evidence. In 60 years of driving, it's mostly gasoline engines I see on the side of the road, sometimes in flames, seldom diesels. But look at the ratios... Per capita, there are far more gasoline engines than diesels so I would expect to see this ratio. It's not to say diesels can't fail nor is it that gasoline engines are prone to failure, it's to say that the ratio is probably the same. Diesels are no different than gasoline engine failure rates.

Oh, and by the way, when I see a big rig on the side of the road, in flames, it's usually brake failure not engine failure.

Fear mongering is unnecessary in either case. Both the 6.7 and the 7.3 are fantastic works of engineering. One's personal choice for one or the other is exactly that, it's a personal choice for your needs or wants. Enjoy your choice. Just know, everything mechanical will eventually die. It's physics.

How many trucks are in your fleet? We have over 300 light duty and medium duty and the number one failure is the DEF/DPF system fallowed by CP4's on the Fords and oil ingestion on the Dmax. Rams seem to have overheating problems and Trans issues. At any given time we have 10- 15 trucks at a dealership with emission problems. We lost brand new Rams and Dmax's last year under 20K. We have lost 4 Dmax last year and 2 so far this year from idling. Maybe even more by now, but It's hard to keep track. GM even sent us an addendum to the fleet truck owners Manuel about excessive idle time. 2022 and newer can not have excessive idle time and they will deny warranty claims showing high idle hours. Apparently all brands count the idle hours towards milage for warranty claims. Yes, these trucks are not used like an average person would use them, but not abused, city driven daily for the most part. But to say its folklore is ignorant on your part. Our semi trucks are plagued with the same problems, one single sensor can shut the truck down to limp mode. We actually have a mobile DPF guy that comes out and cleans the DPF's on our big rigs to save down time. Our heavy equipment that has DEF has the same problems. Most the newer DEF equipment won't even let you idle it for over 10 minutes or shut it down when cleaning the system and every year DEF consumption increases.

My 2 cents for the OP, is if you drive short trips with any vehicle, Diesel or Gas you need to really get everything hot once in a while. Hot rod up the big hill to get the turbo hot and waste gate cycling, help knock the buildup out of the intercooler or valve train. And for the new gen diesels, get the DPF cleared out. The 6.7 is a complete animal and most animals do not like to be in cages if you know what I mean. Diesel or Gas, buy clean fuel and keep it clean, change the oil more often than the manufactures tells you to. And in my personal experience do not buy DEF from the truck stop gas pumps even as much as the boxes suck. I picked the 7.3 as an experiment and so far so good. Do I miss the 6.7 power, not really for what I tow, but you all know the saying."to much horsepower is not enough". I miss the 12-13 MPG towing vs the 7-8, mainly because the short bed has a smaller tank than my F-150. I wish the 7.3 was turbocharged and had a 60 gallon tank and I would never go back to the diesel just because I hate the greasy handles at the gas stations.