Payload sticker pondering

[ccw]

I’m curious: Technically, since were talking grey area, wouldn’t it be the case that the lowest GVWR F250 would have the greatest tow capacity (GCVWR) from a legal perspective for non-CDL drivers since the GCVWR isn’t on the sticker?

i.e. Since federal CDL threshold is 26K#, as computed by GVWR on door jamb plus GVWR on trailer, a 10K# GVWR would allow for a 16K# trailer on the scales rather than the 14.5K# left over for the 11.5K# 350.

Also, since towing capacity isn’t listed on the truck other than for payload (tongue weight) and hitch capacity, wouldn’t the legal limit from a liability perspective be different than what Ford publishes in their fleet guides?

@ccw?

Correct!

Purely based on the federal requirements as well as many states, GCWR doesn’t play into it and therefore it’s just a matter of having the payload capacity to support the tongue weight. But purely based on the 26,000 pound limit a lower GVWR will enable a larger trailer GVWR.

From an insurance perspective, though, I would still consider the manufacturer GCWR. In the case of an accident I would assume the insurance company will look for any way to get out of paying, including checking if you were over GCWR.

But it’s all a balancing act and ultimately needs to be based on the purchasers needs. If you’ll be the only person in the truck when loaded up and “loaded up” means towing equipment trailers, not loading down the bed, then a lower GVWR makes a lot of sense. You won’t be bumping up against payload limits as harshly.

If you’re towing an RV with your whole family, or tend to carry a full crew with you while towing your equipment trailer, then you’ll need that higher GVWR to have the payload capacity for it all.

 

[ccw]

The 26k limit in most states is not a CDL requirement, but rather a "class A exempt" requirement, as in exempt from CDL. Unless of course you are pulling for commercial purposes, in which the "C" in CDL comes into play. Commiefornia is one of the only states that make drivers get a CDL when they aren't actually driving a commercial vehicle.


EDIT - This looks like CA also would only require a class a exempt when non commercial:

License Classes and Requirements - California DMV

Noncommercial License Classes: License classes are based on the size of the vehicle you wish to drive or the weight of the trailer you wish to tow. No passenger vehicle, pickup truck, or RV may tow more than one other vehicle without a Commercial Class A license with the proper endorsement. You...

www.dmv.ca.gov

Hawaii says it needs a CDL for non commercial heavy trailers:

RV Driver's License Requirements - RV MILES

Do you need a CDL to drive an RV? Probably not.

rvmiles.com

Also count Washington in the states that require a CDL when towing heavy, regardless of commercial or not: https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdlrequired.html

However it is worth noting that when towing an RV some states have an exemption or easier licensing process than a full Class A CDL. In WA drivers towing an RV are fully exempt from CDL requirements: https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdlexempt.html

(I thoroughly disagree with a full exemption for RV drivers and believe there should be additional training and knowledge required when driving/towing a massive RV, but I digress.)

I don’t know what the specifics are around the federal CDL requirements and RV exemptions. I believe there is but don’t know for sure.

 

[Loshad]

When Commiefornia starts enforcing laws that directly affect law and order then they can tell me what kind of drivers license I need. Did you know that I can rip your mom's iPhone put of her hands and walk away with it and it isn't even considered a misdemeanor here? Talk about the inmates running the asylum!

 

[oops]

Correct!

Purely based on the federal requirements as well as many states, GCWR doesn’t play into it and therefore it’s just a matter of having the payload capacity to support the tongue weight. But purely based on the 26,000 pound limit a lower GVWR will enable a larger trailer GVWR.

From an insurance perspective, though, I would still consider the manufacturer GCWR. In the case of an accident I would assume the insurance company will look for any way to get out of paying, including checking if you were over GCWR.

But it’s all a balancing act and ultimately needs to be based on the purchasers needs. If you’ll be the only person in the truck when loaded up and “loaded up” means towing equipment trailers, not loading down the bed, then a lower GVWR makes a lot of sense. You won’t be bumping up against payload limits as harshly.

If you’re towing an RV with your whole family, or tend to carry a fully crew with you while towing your equipment trailer, then you’ll need that higher GVWR to have the payload capacity for it all.

Yeah, most of my questioning on these matters is in regards to farm/construction use where actual trailer weight and tongue weight is very dynamic. (And long distance, highway, or high speed use is less typical.)

RVs (seemingly the more common use case for folks on this forum) are a whole other matter for me.

 

[oops]

You guys will turn any conversation into a reason to complain about California. ?

My questions are in regards to federal DOT requirements. I guess I should just read this full FAQ. (https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/383.3)

(And y’all should read up on what communism actually means.) ?

 

[Loshad]

Dude, I guarantee my security clearance was way above yours.
A large part of my life has been spent either studying or actively combating commies on your nickel for your benefit. What I've forgotten about communism is more than you'll ever know. Let's do lunch and we'll talk about it, in Russian.

And since when did I have to start getting a federal drivers license?

 

[TexanTremor]

You guys will turn any conversation into a reason to complain about California. ?

My questions are in regards to federal DOT requirements. I guess I should just read this full FAQ. (https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/383.3)

(And y’all should read up on what communism actually means.) ?

It sounds like you are in fact towing for commercial purposes if it is construction related, correct? If so, then the 26k limit does require a CDL.

For many of us who are not actually engaged in commerce with our vehicles, ie RVs, CFR 383 is for commercial vehicles only. The definitions and applicability section this all relates to commercial vehicles.

Excerpt:
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle is a—
(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A)—having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

 

[oops]

The 26k limit in most states is not a CDL requirement, but rather a "class A exempt" requirement, as in exempt from CDL. Unless of course you are pulling for commercial purposes, in which the "C" in CDL comes into play. Commiefornia is one of the only states that make drivers get a CDL when they aren't actually driving a commercial vehicle.


EDIT - This looks like CA also would only require a class a exempt when non commercial:

License Classes and Requirements - California DMV

Noncommercial License Classes: License classes are based on the size of the vehicle you wish to drive or the weight of the trailer you wish to tow. No passenger vehicle, pickup truck, or RV may tow more than one other vehicle without a Commercial Class A license with the proper endorsement. You...

www.dmv.ca.gov

Hawaii says it needs a CDL for non commercial heavy trailers:

RV Driver's License Requirements - RV MILES

Do you need a CDL to drive an RV? Probably not.

rvmiles.com

So, digging around, it does appear to be the case that every state has special license requirements (not necessarily CDL requirements as I earlier implied) for GCVWR of 26,001# or more with a 2-axle non-commercial vehicle as mandated by the federal Department of Transportation UNLESS you're pulling an RV or an “agricultural trailer” in which case there are exemptions in some states.

So, back to the original topic. It does appear to be the case that the highest legal towing limit for anyone with a basic license on any Tremor (at least so far as the scales are concerned) would be a 16000# GVWR trailer with the 7.3L Gas 250 variant. Reduced to 14500# for the highest GVWR Tremor (Diesel 350.)

Noting as well that the maximum bumper pull capacity of all Tremor variants is 15000# anyway according to Ford.

This is a pretty interesting caveat for folks not towing RVs IMO.