Inverter upgraded to 2000watt pure sine wave

 
I have a 2022 250 with dual batteries and dual alternators. Are there specific ways of hooking up the dc cables to a 2000 watt inverter? Can I attach to either battery?
 
OverTheHill said:
I have a 2022 250 with dual batteries and dual alternators. Are there specific ways of hooking up the dc cables to a 2000 watt inverter? Can I attach to either battery?
Click to expand...
The truck batteries will be in parallel. You can hook the cables up to the most convenient point; however, I would hook them up to the same battery positive and negative terminals. Do not rely on the chassis as a ground only, or internal wire from battery to battery, run a separate negative wire and positive wire. For 2000 watts, generally you would use 2/0 wire, if you plan on running back to the original location of the built in inverter. (Bigger is better for the least amount of drop.)

There are several schools of thought on this, but this is the easiest way to run two wires and keep the wire lengths as short as possible. All wires, no matter what size they are, have a drop when running high current through them. By running two wires to different batteries, you are relying on the system wiring/chassis for the return, which adds resistance overall. By running two wires to one location, you have the least amount of drop.

By the way, if you run the inverter with battery power exclusively, and run at or near max capacity, your batteries will not last long before needing recharge., even with two batteries. So, depending on your purpose, alternate batteries with a DC-DC charger, might be a good choice instead. (Such as in a trailer)

One more note, the closer to the battery that you can mount the inverter, the more efficient it will be overall and could even reduce the DC wire size a bit. AC will run a much longer distance with minimal drop, than the DC required to run the inverter. This is why I will be installing my inverter in the bed (covered) with its own battery source, also in the bed. Very short wires to the inverter and separate AC panel.
 
Canyon Trekker said:
The truck batteries will be in parallel. You can hook the cables up to the most convenient point; however, I would hook them up to the same battery positive and negative terminals. Do not rely on the chassis as a ground only, or internal wire from battery to battery, run a separate negative wire and positive wire. For 2000 watts, generally you would use 2/0 wire, if you plan on running back to the original location of the built in inverter. (Bigger is better for the least amount of drop.)

There are several schools of thought on this, but this is the easiest way to run two wires and keep the wire lengths as short as possible. All wires, no matter what size they are, have a drop when running high current through them. By running two wires to different batteries, you are relying on the system wiring/chassis for the return, which adds resistance overall. By running two wires to one location, you have the least amount of drop.

By the way, if you run the inverter with battery power exclusively, and run at or near max capacity, your batteries will not last long before needing recharge., even with two batteries. So, depending on your purpose, alternate batteries with a DC-DC charger, might be a good choice instead. (Such as in a trailer)

One more note, the closer to the battery that you can mount the inverter, the more efficient it will be overall and could even reduce the DC wire size a bit. AC will run a much longer distance with minimal drop, than the DC required to run the inverter. This is why I will be installing my inverter in the bed (covered) with its own battery source, also in the bed. Very short wires to the inverter and separate AC panel.
Click to expand...
I'm setting up a power system for a camper and have purchased a Bluetti 300. It has no way of hooking up a B to B charger. It will however take 25 to 30 amps from an inverter or shore power. The two alternators will put out 397 amps. At what point will I be over stressing the alternators? I'm roughly guessing the a 2000 watt inverter will continuously draw 166 amps and a 3000 watt inverter will draw 230 amps. Are these alternators made to handle a continuous load like this for a couple of hours?
 
Last edited:
OverTheHill said:
I'm setting up a power system for a camper and have purchased a Bluetti 300. It has no way of hooking up a B to B charger. It will however take 25 to 30 amps from an inverter or shore power. The two alternators will put out 397 amps. At what point will I be over stressing the alternators? I'm roughly guessing the a 2000 watt inverter will continuously draw 166 amps and a 3000 watt inverter will draw 230 amps. Are these alternators made to handle a continuous load like this for a couple of hours?
Click to expand...
www.bluettipower.com

BLUETTI AC300 Inverter Module Generator | 3,000W ( Requires The B300/B300K to Work )

BLUETTI AC300 inverter module generator is 100% modular and each unit can be connected by 4*B300 expansion batteries, enabling up to 12,288Wh. Shop now!
www.bluettipower.com www.bluettipower.com

I see. That looks like a pretty nice self-contained setup. But this is a completely different story, not at all like the inverters used in this thread, whereby people are replacing the on board 400W inverters with a much better pure sine wave inverter.

The Bluetti AC300 (Assuming AC300) requires the B300 battery to work. The charge conditions for the B300 is around 8.2 amps via the car/truck.

From Bluetti home page:​

BLUETTI AC300 Inverter Module Generator | 3,000W ( Requires The B300 to Work )​


This unit can use 4 B300 batteries simultaneously. If you were to charge all 4 B300s via the truck at the same time, it would only draw 32.8 amps, (Based on 8.2A per battery charge rate.) It will also require much more time to charge at that rate. The alternator will have no problem at all keeping up with that. Charging from a solar charger will be faster than this, depending on the type and quantity of solar panels you get. Shore power is rated at 15A.

Extracted from the manual:
1701990731314.webp


Just FYI, an efficient inverter draws very little current when not loaded. When activated. it will only draw the amount for the load plus about 10-15% more, for the conversion loss. So, a load of 1000 watts (based on 12V) will draw approx. 96 amps. But that would be drawn from the B300 battery in your case, not the truck. The load will dictate how much energy is used by the AC300, using the B300 battery, which can be doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled in a hookup, and provide up to 3000 watts for extended periods.

Unfortunately, as with most electronic products today, nothing is verbatim through perception. There is a lot of small print that needs to be weeded out to get the true story. I hope this helps, if I'm missing something, please let me know.

Manual link:
 
Canyon Trekker said:
www.bluettipower.com

BLUETTI AC300 Inverter Module Generator | 3,000W ( Requires The B300/B300K to Work )

BLUETTI AC300 inverter module generator is 100% modular and each unit can be connected by 4*B300 expansion batteries, enabling up to 12,288Wh. Shop now!
www.bluettipower.com www.bluettipower.com

I see. That looks like a pretty nice self-contained setup. But this is a completely different story, not at all like the inverters used in this thread, whereby people are replacing the on board 400W inverters with a much better pure sine wave inverter.

The Bluetti AC300 (Assuming AC300) requires the B300 battery to work. The charge conditions for the B300 is around 8.2 amps via the car/truck.

From Bluetti home page:​

BLUETTI AC300 Inverter Module Generator | 3,000W ( Requires The B300 to Work )​


This unit can use 4 B300 batteries simultaneously. If you were to charge all 4 B300s via the truck at the same time, it would only draw 32.8 amps, (Based on 8.2A per battery charge rate.) It will also require much more time to charge at that rate. The alternator will have no problem at all keeping up with that. Charging from a solar charger will be faster than this, depending on the type and quantity of solar panels you get. Shore power is rated at 15A.

Extracted from the manual:
View attachment 136736

Just FYI, an efficient inverter draws very little current when not loaded. When activated. it will only draw the amount for the load plus about 10-15% more, for the conversion loss. So, a load of 1000 watts (based on 12V) will draw approx. 96 amps. But that would be drawn from the B300 battery in your case, not the truck. The load will dictate how much energy is used by the AC300, using the B300 battery, which can be doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled in a hookup, and provide up to 3000 watts for extended periods.

Unfortunately, as with most electronic products today, nothing is verbatim through perception. There is a lot of small print that needs to be weeded out to get the true story. I hope this helps, if I'm missing something, please let me know.

Manual link:
Click to expand...
I asked the question directly to Bluetti and they suggested an inverter. An AC signal from an inverter should be the same as from shore power--no. the signal from an inverter should be cleaner.
 
I would think shore power coming from a power plant will have the best, clean waveform due to the rotational mass of the generator rotors and a true 3 phase waveform.
 
BroncoHooves said:
I would think shore power coming from a power plant will have the best, clean waveform due to the rotational mass of the generator rotors and a true 3 phase waveform.
Click to expand...
I am going to be using a Renogy inverter. They advertise "Pure sign wave inverter." Good enough.
 
OverTheHill said:
I asked the question directly to Bluetti and they suggested an inverter. An AC signal from an inverter should be the same as from shore power--no. the signal from an inverter should be cleaner.
Click to expand...
OK, got it. So, you're hooking up an inverter, about 2KW, in the truck to supply AC power to charge the Bluetti AC300-B300 battery at a higher rate than with DC only. The Bluetti will then be located in the trailer. Or at least, some combination of this.

Then back to the original statement, hook the 2KW inverter up to one battery using heavy wire per the manufacturer's recommendation for the distance to the 2000-watt inverter. You should be fine with the truck power. If for some reason the B300 batteries are completely discharged, you may for a few moments, draw max power that the AC300-B300 can draw from an AC source. (The manufacturers specs on this are somewhat ambiguous.) The charge rate should taper off after a few minutes. Just know that if you are drawing 166 amps, (max output of 2000W inverter at 12V) everything will get hot. (Especially small gauge wire) Use good ventilation. Alternatively, when possible, charge the B300 with shore power. Much more efficient than an inverter but I understand, may not be available while traveling.

According to the Bluetti specs, an 1800-watt outlet is required in the US. That's about 15A at 120V. If you run more than one B300, make sure you get all the required additional accessories. See manual. Work closely with Bluetti, it could get complex.
 
Canyon Trekker said:
OK, got it. So, you're hooking up an inverter, about 2KW, in the truck to supply AC power to charge the Bluetti AC300-B300 battery at a higher rate than with DC only. The Bluetti will then be located in the trailer. Or at least, some combination of this.

Then back to the original statement, hook the 2KW inverter up to one battery using heavy wire per the manufacturer's recommendation for the distance to the 2000-watt inverter. You should be fine with the truck power. If for some reason the B300 batteries are completely discharged, you may for a few moments, draw max power that the AC300-B300 can draw from an AC source. (The manufacturers specs on this are somewhat ambiguous.) The charge rate should taper off after a few minutes. Just know that if you are drawing 166 amps, (max output of 2000W inverter at 12V) everything will get hot. (Especially small gauge wire) Use good ventilation. Alternatively, when possible, charge the B300 with shore power. Much more efficient than an inverter but I understand, may not be available while traveling.

According to the Bluetti specs, an 1800-watt outlet is required in the US. That's about 15A at 120V. If you run more than one B300, make sure you get all the required additional accessories. See manual. Work closely with Bluetti, it could get complex.
Click to expand...
Thank you for all your input.
 
OK, am I to understand the OEM Ford Option 2KW Inverter wont charge 20V tool Batteries??

if not I just wasted $985 on the OEM PRO POWER.

ps window sticker went live today

1702043636756.webp
 
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MVI said:
OK, am I to understand the OEM Ford Option 2KW Inverter wont charge 20V tool Batteries??
Click to expand...
That would be surprising to me, it should have no issue. I have used the crappy 400W inverter in my 22 to charge my 18V batteries. It is a little picky on the charger I use, though.
 
Is the 23+ OEM 2KW inverter pure sine wave finally?
 
ThePugLife said:
From what I’ve seen on other threads, it is
Click to expand...
Has someone shown the waveform? I would either want to see that or documentation from Ford. Otherwise I would say it's speculation.
 
MVI said:
Ok - does anyone know will a 3kw inverter work,
I mean if this 2KW inverter is really a POS, it it possible to just pull the converter and put in a nicer better pure since 3000w inverter and use all the OEM wiring?


for $985 I expected more/better from Ford on a work truck
Click to expand...
I would advise some caution and patience at this point; the Pro Power may not have the same issues as the 400-watt inverter. @ThePugLife attached a very useful link showing the waveform of the F150 and it doesn't look all that bad for an inverter stressed to near capacity. If the one you ordered with your new truck looks like this one, it will run most any appliance, charger, most tools, and a sundry of other devices. Whomever posted this picture described the noise as "harmonics". First off, not to get too technical, you can't see "harmonics" on an oscilloscope. The spikes and slight distortion is typical of an inverter without filtering. It can also be the reason for dropping 10% (per the posters notes) at full output. This is a far cry from the stepped response of the 400-watt inverter, which has a stepped response, which is horrible at best for running anything. These are the inverters people are replacing.

Switching noise and distortion as the waveform shows can affect some ultra-sensitive equipment such as high-end test equipment, professional radios, and anything where the primary supply has to have virtually no "distortion" or noise. (Distortion causes harmonics, noise passes through to internal circuitry via secondary supplies.)

There are several faults in this analysis below, by the original poster but too much to go into all the detail. Bottom line is the Pro Power inverter (assuming it has this waveform) will work with most people's situation. No, it's not the best out there, but sufficient in most cases.

Analysis Example: The P-P (peak to peak) value is 334.4 volts which equates to 118V RMS, but the RMS value shows as 107.2. This discrepancy is due to the distortion in the waveform under load. This is normal for this type of inverter.


1702097703568.webp
 
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