How to improve suspension performance without lifting the front end?

[Gymkata]

update?

Everything is on and I got my truck aligned yesterday. The front springs and CDEV shock dampening feels good, but the truck is all over the place still due to the steering stabilizers. The 4x4 shop that did the alignment said the opposing steering stabilizers are the stiffest they've ever seen and the opposing design is making them fight against eachother...and that's exactly what it feels like while driving. Except on smooth road, I'm constantly fighting against the stabilizers. I called Icon yesterday and the tech said he hadn't heard of anybody with that issue and he'd have to get ahold of another tech who was a specialist in that area, who unfortunately is currently traveling. He wasn't sure if I got over pressurized shock...or??? I'm going to put the stock stabilizers back on until they figure out what's going on.

 

[Gymkata]

I took out the Icon dual opposing steering stabilizers and the truck drove 10x better without them. I tried putting the stock steering stabilizer back in, but didn't have the proper tools to get it to seat in properly and tried to just brute force tighten it into place...promptly sheering off the bolt.

 

[kylant]

I took out the Icon dual opposing steering stabilizers and the truck drove 10x better without them. I tried putting the stock steering stabilizer back in, but didn't have the proper tools to get it to seat in properly and tried to just brute force tighten it into place...promptly sheering off the bolt.

is the end of the shaft not just a tapered stud that goes into the drag link with a nut on the other side? frame side is just a through bolt? i haven't looked at mine, so i am unsure.
if it is just a tapered stud, the stud usually does not go all the way down. just goes down until the fit is tight.
hope you get if figured out quickly.

i have never heard anything good about low mount opposing stabilizers.

 

[Gymkata]

is the end of the shaft not just a tapered stud that goes into the drag link with a nut on the other side? frame side is just a through bolt? i haven't looked at mine, so i am unsure.
if it is just a tapered stud, the stud usually does not go all the way down. just goes down until the fit is tight.
hope you get if figured out quickly.

i have never heard anything good about low mount opposing stabilizers.

I thought it was seated all the way from the factory, but I just looked closer at where I shore it off and realized I was essentially at the end of the threaded portion...so it couldn't have been seated all the way to the flared out section. I thought since I had to pound it out with a sledge hammer it was originally fully seated...guess not. Because my dumb ass got impatient, I'll be ordering a similar but upgraded high mount steering stabilizer now.

I'm still waiting for Icon to get back to me as well. Unless their answer is that they sent me the wrong stabilizers that were supposed to have much much much less positive pressure, I don't see how the dual opposing design would ever drive well and not require constant minor steering adjustments over uneven terrain.

 

[Gymkata]

A new package arrived yesterday evening. I'll probably put it on tomorrow. I think the Fox stabilizer should be a nice improvement over stock. The Icon dual opposing steering stabilizers were a nightmare and made the truck virtually undrivable (The truck currently drives 10x better with no steering stabilizer than with the Icon dual opposing stabilizers installed).

I think I'm going to have a huge fight with Icon to get a return/refund for the dual opposing steering stabilizers. They responded that they don't accept returns on used parts. My contention is it is not a return, rather a refund for either 1) a faulty part (possibly severely overcharged stabilizers) or 2) a horribly engineered product.

 

[kylant]

overall, how is the truck with your new set-up? softer ride? how much lift did it settle into? how do the gas springs ride in comparison to the diesel springs you temporarily had on?
i am surprised soft the front of my tremor rides. the rear is another story. i truly think this truck rides softer up front than the silverado 3500 i had just before this one.

 

[Gymkata]

overall, how is the truck with your new set-up? softer ride? how much lift did it settle into? how do the gas springs ride in comparison to the diesel springs you temporarily had on?
i am surprised soft the front of my tremor rides. the rear is another story. i truly think this truck rides softer up front than the silverado 3500 i had just before this one.

I can't really compare the diesel spring feel vs the gas because I didn't have them on for that long and the truck badly needed an alignment that took up most of my concentration while driving. I'd say it was a little stiffer, but not by too much.

The Icon gas coils are more compliant for sure. They are not soft, but are smoother over uneven surfaces. Overall the ride is improved and the dampening is definitely improved. The truck is still pretty harsh over broken road sections, I feel mostly due to the stock leaf packs being harsh. I'll wait until I have the Tune M1 topper with a full build out inside and see how much 1000+ lbs smooths out the ride.

As far as the exact lift amount of the springs, that's a bit more difficult. I switched to new wheels/tires while putting on the suspension, so the before/after measurements are not exact for height. I measured 42" front / 44 1/2" rear stock with the Duratracs at ~60 PSI...and approximately 43 7/8" front / 45" rear with the Roadian ATXs at 70+ PSI after adding the Icon coils and shocks. The mounts for the remote reservoirs are held in place above the coil springs and are about 1/10" thick per my eyeball, which adds that much to the front height. My last measurements also weren't on perfectly level ground so there's going to be a little variance. With all of that said, I think the front lift height of the springs is right about 1.5" as stated on the website...the diesel springs on my gas truck yielded ~2 5/8" lift.

 

[theringworm8]

View attachment 157718

A new package arrived yesterday evening. I'll probably put it on tomorrow. I think the Fox stabilizer should be a nice improvement over stock. The Icon dual opposing steering stabilizers were a nightmare and made the truck virtually undrivable (The truck currently drives 10x better with no steering stabilizer than with the Icon dual opposing stabilizers installed).

I think I'm going to have a huge fight with Icon to get a return/refund for the dual opposing steering stabilizers. They responded that they don't accept returns on used parts. My contention is it is not a return, rather a refund for either 1) a faulty part (possibly severely overcharged stabilizers) or 2) a horribly engineered product.

Interested to see what your thoughts are on the Fox stabilizer. Been debating this vs the Carli one. Thanks

 

[Gymkata]

Fox ATS 2.0 steering stabilizer is on. I set it at 10 clicks right from softest (25 click adjust-ability), and after a 10 mile test drive I think it feels pretty good...a million times better than the Icon dual opposing steering stabilizers (Caveat: I still haven't been able to speak with their apparently single tech that has any in depth knowledge of that system...so my Icon steering stabilizers could have had an issue or something). The Fox ATS dampens nicely and the fact I can adjust it based on my preferences is awesome.

 

[rguest3]

Fox ATS 2.0 steering stabilizer is on. I set it at 10 clicks right from softest (25 click adjust-ability), and after a 10 mile test drive I think it feels pretty good...a million times better than the Icon dual opposing steering stabilizers (Caveat: I still haven't been able to speak with their apparently single tech that has any in depth knowledge of that system...so my Icon steering stabilizers could have had an issue or something). The Fox ATS dampens nicely and the fact I can adjust it based on my preferences is awesome.
View attachment 157847View attachment 157848View attachment 157849View attachment 157850

Your truck looks great!

I will have the Icon Suspension installed on my truck (with the correct Gas Engine Coil Springs) in a couple weeks.

 

[Devenhallen]

What were your alignment specs? Toe in to much can have this effect as well.

 

[Gymkata]

What were your alignment specs? Toe in to much can have this effect as well.

Sorry, I've been crazy busy lately. I can't find the printout of the alignment, but it did have quite a bit of toe in before the alignment. It should be spot on now.
On a separate note, I'm going to be returning the Nexan Rodian ATX tires. I've been going nuts over the past several weeks trying to figure out what the issue is...why the truck had a sloppy steering feel with the tires following the road and my needing to make many many more steering corrections than I had to stock. At first I thought there was some issue with the alignment or I had damaged something installing the adjustable Icon track bar and coil springs. I had my wife move the steering wheel back and forth hard and couldn't find anything with excessive play, and the ball joints had no movement when I moved the wheels around at full droop.

I tried letting air out of the Nexan Rodian ATX tires...went from the 75 psi it was shipped with down to 65, and they drove a bit better but still poorly. I went down to about 55 psi and it improved the steering quite a bit again, but still not anywhere as good as I remembered it felt stock.

Today I swapped the stock wheels and tires back on and the truck drives much better. The only thing I can conclude is the Nexan Rodian ATX center tread band must follow road variations, making driving them very difficult to drive except on perfect surfaces while going straight (maybe it is a design that exacerbates the solid front axle's already mediocre steering precision). The tires themselves ride very smoothly and there was no vibrations so I don't see how the Method wheels are a factor at all (though they are a +18 offset vs the stock +44).

I'm open to any thoughts/input before I try to return these tires, which should still fall under the 45 day/500 mile Nexan satisfaction guarantee period.

 

[Hunterman]

Hard to say. I hated the ridge grapplers when I put them on my old truck. Lost traction any time it rained and I bought them in the rainy season. Americas tire has as 30 return period.

Problem is most of the time new tires do get a little squirrelly for the first 1000 miles so if you have to return them in less then 500 miles it’s tough to know if they would even calm down

 

[Gymkata]

Hard to say. I hated the ridge grapplers when I put them on my old truck. Lost traction any time it rained and I bought them in the rainy season. Americas tire has as 30 return period.

Problem is most of the time new tires do get a little squirrelly for the first 1000 miles so if you have to return them in less then 500 miles it’s tough to know if they would even calm down

Yeah, I was thinking they would probably improve as the center section wears a bit and there's a bigger contact patch...though they are supposed to be a low wear tire with a 60k mileage warranty, so that might take a few thousand miles. I'm about to go on a 7000 mile road trip in a few days and don't want to keep these on and hope they get better as they wear. I'll keep the stock wheels and tires on for the trip...though I specifically bought the second set of wheels and tires to be better for daily use and long trips. I wanted to keep the stock wheels and tires for times I needed a more aggressive tire.

 

[rguest3]

Yeah, I was thinking they would probably improve as the center section wears a bit and there's a bigger contact patch...though they are supposed to be a low wear tire with a 60k mileage warranty, so that might take a few thousand miles. I'm about to go on a 7000 mile road trip in a few days and don't want to keep these on and hope they get better as they wear. I'll keep the stock wheels and tires on for the trip...though I specifically bought the second set of wheels and tires to be better for daily use and long trips. I wanted to keep the stock wheels and tires for times I needed a more aggressive tire.

Sounds like you still have too much air pressure in the tires if the sides of the tread are not on the ground and just the center is.

 

[Gymkata]

Sounds like you still have too much air pressure in the tires if the sides of the tread are not on the ground and just the center is.

Yes, I guess I'm new to this...I've only owned 3 straight front axle vehicles...1989 Jeep cherokee, 1997 Ram 1500, and this. I've never had a vehicle track all over the road before (but Ive also never dealt with an HD solid front axle with higher pressures). All my other vehicles were IFS. Long story short, I couldn't return my Nexan tires without paying shipping both ways...so I lowered the psi in front to 50 and remounted them. Hopefully they drive straight after a few thousand miles.

 

[rguest3]

Yes, I guess I'm new to this...I've only owned 3 straight front axle vehicles...1989 Jeep cherokee, 1997 Ram 1500, and this. I've never had a vehicle track all over the road before (but Ive also never dealt with an HD solid front axle with higher pressures). All my other vehicles were IFS. Long story short, I couldn't return my Nexan tires without paying shipping both ways...so I lowered the psi in front to 50 and remounted them. Hopefully they drive straight after a few thousand miles.

You shouldn't have to wait any miles for the truck to drive straight!

If your truck is empty most of the time 50-55psi in the tires should be fine.

Sounds like an alignment issue. How much Castor do you have now? Did you also install Castor shims when you put the Level Lift on?

 

[Gymkata]

You shouldn't have to wait any miles for the truck to drive straight!

If your truck is empty most of the time 50-55psi in the tires should be fine.

Sounds like an alignment issue. How much Castor do you have now? Did you also install Castor shims when you put the Level Lift on?

I don't have a printout of any of my alignment specs. I'll have to call the shop to see if they have them still on digits.

I installed the 2.3° alignment cams that came with the Icon coil springs.

 

[rguest3]

I don't have a printout of any of my alignment specs. I'll have to call the shop to see if they have them still on digits.

I installed the 2.3° alignment cams that came with the Icon coil springs.
View attachment 159484

I have the same front springs and Shims installed as you do. Even with the Shims the truck is still under 3* of Caster. This is pretty low especially with larger tires.

I may add Adjustable Radius Arms for additional Castor?