Audio System Education

[deathfromafar17]

My hearing is odd. Tinnitus is super loud but comes and goes frequently. My hearing has degraded more in my left than right ear. I can “hear” stuff but I have difficulty understanding what people say so I watch peoples mouths when they talk now. The VAs sweet hearing aids dont work half the time. Also I have vertigo from the ear crap. Hand held rockets are loud

 

[HeavyAssault]

My hearing is odd. Tinnitus is super loud but comes and goes frequently. My hearing has degraded more in my left than right ear. I can “hear” stuff but I have difficulty understanding what people say so I watch peoples mouths when they talk now. The VAs sweet hearing aids dont work half the time. Also I have vertigo from the ear crap. Hand held rockets are loud

I've heard the carl gustav tends to ring your bell. Ever heard of him??

 

[Tugboat]

I've heard the carl gustav tends to ring your bell. Ever heard of him??

certainly have heard of him although my loss is from about 2800hrs in CH-47's, 1200hrs in UHI

 

[Baja Designs]

You audio guys already know all of this, so this is really for the benefit of old guys like me who grew up building stereos for cars and trucks in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s.

The audio component world has gone the way of the tool world… Companies develop a reputation for quality high-end components, then capitalize on it by branding low quality, Chinese, dog-squeeze with their good name, so they can multiply their sales volume and trash their reputation at the same time. Craftsman did it (killing Sears in the process), Warn is doing it, and now all of the formerly high-quality audio component companies are doing it.

Bose was never super high-end audio, but they developed some ingenious stuff in the 70s, and they generally produced quality products. You could rely on everything they branded/sold being at least decent. Not anymore. The Bose speakers in the new GM trucks, like the stereos, suck. The B&O “unleashed” system in the Fords is much better than GM’s “Bose”, as is the Alpine system in the Dodge/Ram/Jeep family, but none come anywhere near the quality that earned them brand name loyalty. (I wonder if Baja Designs will eventually brand and sell Taiwanese fog light sets for $199?)

Yesterday, I went to a local stereo store owned by a buddy of mine and listened to various upgrade options. I had Focal speakers in a truck I built about 15 years ago, and they were fantastic, so I selected some of those from the board and streamed some music. They were $300 per pair, and sounded like $100 per pair, which is what I told my buddy. As it turns out, if you want anything resembling the speakers I bought 15 years ago you have to start shopping at about $800 per pair. Those speakers are still made in France and they sounded good. The next tier up sounds significantly brighter/sharper/cleaner/better, at about $1400 more for the truck. They’re good, but they’re really just the second rung of the actual Focal product line. Everything below that line is dog-squeeze in a Focal box.

It’s easy to drop $6,000 on upgrading the Super Duty audio system, and that’s without huge amps, big subwoofers, custom boxes, fancy DSP programming, or other goodies that drive the price up in $1,000 and 2,000 bumps. I was totally clueless.. There are guys dropping $30,000 to $40,000 on stereo systems in their trucks, and those aren’t the high-rollers. I had no idea…

We stayed on the same path for over 30+ years developing reliable and race-winning lighting solutions. Nothing has changed and nothing will change. Be on the lookout we have some very interesting things coming next year!

Best,
Brahian Herrera | Forum Sales & Support
Email: [email protected] | Phone: (760) 560-2252 Ext 201

 

[deathfromafar17]

I've heard the carl gustav tends to ring your bell. Ever heard of him??

Oh yes. Ol Carl G is great for qualat busting. Oh you see that nice looking thing over there? Not for long…

 

[gmoon]

When we were building custom vans, our audio package was usually around $15k. Part of that was because we had pretty advanced DSPs wired in such a way that when the vehicle was off, you could still play music through bluetooth via the 12V lithium "house batteries". That said, our talented audio install shop in LA had great things to say about focal. Typically, we were pairing Focal speakers/sub, and then we used Helix for the amps and everything. Its hard to beat Focal's fancy french speakers and all the Helix stuff which is still made in Germany.

I too was surprised with just how expensive audio geeks will get... I have been in his shop often, and they are routinely doing $50-60k installs. No joke, sometimes these are going in Honda civics worth MAYBE $5k.... I guess everyone has their hobbies.....

I wanted to upgrade the speakers in our Tremor but Dan @ Carli (@BLACKCHERRY) took all my monies.

Specific products we have used and like a lot are below. There are certainly lines more premium than this. Ive learned sky is the limit with audio.

FOCAL FLAX EVO 6.5 -- $499.99 for pair
FOCAL FLAX EVO 6.5 w/ TWEETERS -- $599.99
FOCAL FLAX EVO P20 FE / FSE (SHALLOW MOUNT) SUBWOOFER - $399.99
HELIX AMPS/DSPS -- LINK

I am not affiliated with Focal or Helix.

 

[BeastDad_04]

In my younger days I would have dove in and installed myself, before all of this fancy stuff. Replaced the head unit and installed JL Audio amp/sub in my 2009 F150 for about $800. On my Tremor, I just went to MTI Acoustics and had them installed JL Audio 10" sub, JL Audio 500 watt amp and then panels behind factory door speakers. I finally don't dread a song with a little bass in it. Parts and labor was around $2k. Worth it to me, as I plan on keeping the truck for many years. Had JL Audio in my son's Dodge Challenger he used to have, they some good quality for the price.

 

[Whaler27]

My hearing is odd. Tinnitus is super loud but comes and goes frequently. My hearing has degraded more in my left than right ear. I can “hear” stuff but I have difficulty understanding what people say so I watch peoples mouths when they talk now. The VAs sweet hearing aids dont work half the time. Also I have vertigo from the ear crap. Hand held rockets

When we were building custom vans, our audio package was usually around $15k. Part of that was because we had pretty advanced DSPs wired in such a way that when the vehicle was off, you could still play music through bluetooth via the 12V lithium "house batteries". That said, our talented audio install shop in LA had great things to say about focal. Typically, we were pairing Focal speakers/sub, and then we used Helix for the amps and everything. Its hard to beat Focal's fancy french speakers and all the Helix stuff which is still made in Germany.

I too was surprised with just how expensive audio geeks will get... I have been in his shop often, and they are routinely doing $50-60k installs. No joke, sometimes these are going in Honda civics worth MAYBE $5k.... I guess everyone has their hobbies.....

I wanted to upgrade the speakers in our Tremor but Dan @ Carli (@BLACKCHERRY) took all my monies.

Specific products we have used and like a lot are below. There are certainly lines more premium than this. Ive learned sky is the limit with audio.

FOCAL FLAX EVO 6.5 -- $499.99 for pair
FOCAL FLAX EVO 6.5 w/ TWEETERS -- $599.99
FOCAL FLAX EVO P20 FE / FSE (SHALLOW MOUNT) SUBWOOFER - $399.99
HELIX AMPS/DSPS -- LINK

I am not affiliated with Focal or Helix.
View attachment 181302

View attachment 181303

This is very similar to the first rung proposed by my friend who owns the stereo store. His recommendation also included sound-deadening mat throughout and building a sub box that would replace the short side of the back seat under-seat storage. One step up the Focal line from the Flax you showed above increased the package price $1400.

I’m not going to drop $6000, but I’m at least thinking about a $3500 upgrade. Even that seems silly. Maybe the thought will pass, like indigestion.

 

[gmoon]

This is very similar to the first rung proposed by my friend who owns the stereo store. His recommendation also included sound-deadening mat throughout and building a sub box that would replace the short side of the back seat under-seat storage. One step up the Focal line from the Flax you showed above increased the package price $1400.

I’m not going to drop $6000, but I’m at least thinking about a $3500 upgrade. Even that seems silly. Maybe the thought will pass, like indigestion.

Nice... Ya my audio shop uses a ton of Soundskin for that purpose. I have used Kilmat (cheap), Hustmat (better) and Soundskin best. I have found through years of use the Kilmat stuff will eventually fall off with the heat.

Im hoping to eventually be a dealer, but for now, check out Soundskin's precut parts for these trucks.
2017-2022
2023-2024 Coming soon

 

[Blade420Play🔪🏆]

This is very similar to the first rung proposed by my friend who owns the stereo store. His recommendation also included sound-deadening mat throughout and building a sub box that would replace the short side of the back seat under-seat storage. One step up the Focal line from the Flax you showed above increased the package price $1400.

I’m not going to drop $6000, but I’m at least thinking about a $3500 upgrade. Even that seems silly. Maybe the thought will pass, like indigestion.

Your indigestion passes!?!?!

 

[Whaler27]

Your indigestion passes!?!?!

Prevacid, brother. That stuff has allowed me to eat like a thirty-year-old at least some of the time.

 

[Whaler27]

In my younger days I would have dove in and installed myself, before all of this fancy stuff. Replaced the head unit and installed JL Audio amp/sub in my 2009 F150 for about $800. On my Tremor, I just went to MTI Acoustics and had them installed JL Audio 10" sub, JL Audio 500 watt amp and then panels behind factory door speakers. I finally don't dread a song with a little bass in it. Parts and labor was around $2k. Worth it to me, as I plan on keeping the truck for many years. Had JL Audio in my son's Dodge Challenger he used to have, they some good quality for the price.

I pulled the box with two 8” JL Audio subs out of my last truck before selling it. I’m guessing one of those subs would be a significant improvement in the Tremor.

In my younger days I used to install everything myself too, but it was all so much simpler then. These days the high-end systems require the signal from the OEM head unit to be ingested and translated, then amplified and tuned with a laptop. The wiring and component complexity have multiplied as my brain has softened and my patience has shortened. Aging eyes and a beat up body don’t help either… My days of lying on my back under the brake pedal are behind me.

My buddy’’s store charges labor by the component. The installation tally for the higher end option was about $650, which probably pays the guy doing the work about $70 per hour. He does great work, and unskilled people here are getting paid $19 per hour at McDonalds, so that price seems reasonable. In fact, it’s the only part of the total cost that DOES seem reasonable.

 

[Blade420Play🔪🏆]

Prevacid, brother. That stuff has allowed me to eat like a thirty-year-old at least some of the time.

I had GERD for a minute and they gave me that or some other reflux meds, and Flonase. My wife made me quit because of all the lawsuits against pharma for the ritidine and stuff. Plus, the Flonase is addictive as hell I generally don't get the heartburn anymore unless I gorge on a bunch of food and sweet tea

 

[Blade420Play🔪🏆]

I pulled the box with two 8” JL Audio subs out of my last truck before selling it. I’m guessing one of those subs would be a significant improvement in the Tremor.

In my younger days I used to install everything myself too, but it was all so much simpler then. These days the high-end systems require the signal from the OEM head unit to be ingested and translated, then amplified and tuned with a laptop. The wiring and component complexity have multiplied as my brain has softened and my patience has shortened. Aging eyes and a beat up body don’t help either… My days of lying on my back under the brake pedal are behind me.

My buddy’’s store charges labor by the component. The installation tally for the higher end option was about $650, which probably pays the guy doing the work about $70 per hour. He does great work, and unskilled people here are getting paid $19 per hour at McDonalds, so that price seems reasonable. In fact, it’s the only part of the total cost that DOES seem reasonable.

Damn. I might just go work at McDonald's one day, when I get tired of having to do actual work

 

[daveconley50]

It’s weird how our ears work (or don’t work) after prolonged exposure to gunfire. I’ve lost high frequency hearing on both sides, but the loss is much worse on one side than the other, and my tinnitus ebbs and flows. I didn’t want medication for it, but one of my closest buddies spent both tours on a .50 Barrett, and his tinnitus is so bad he’s on the meds for it. With the meds, he can’t hear even LOUD static. (I remember a presentation he did at the VA. He was at the podium and the system was having loud feedback as he was getting his presentation ready. His wife was in the front row. She got up and spoke to him and he turned down the volume and moved the mic. Then he said, “I’m sorry folks. My wife tells me there was loud feedback noise, but between my tinnitus and the medication I take didn’t hear it at all.”) A third friend has no tinnitus at all, but his hearing damage is so severe he’s had to wear hearing aids for almost fifteen years. I don’t know whether our bodies all react/tolerate differently, or small differences in exposure make the differences — but I’d be willing to bet 0331s have a high-ER average incidence of hearing damage than the rest of our population. Seems to go with the territory.

My left ear tinnitus is definitely worse than my right. That ear was wedged tight against the butt stock and protected from the muzzle blast.

 

[thatdood]

My left ear tinnitus is definitely worse than my right. That ear was wedged tight against the butt stock and protected from the muzzle blast.

Shooting suppressed has greatly helped me

 

[Whaler27]

My left ear tinnitus is definitely worse than my right. That ear was wedged tight against the butt stock and protected from the muzzle blast.

My left ear is quite a bit worse too, though I’m not sure why. I shot from every position, and had plenty of others firing around me. It seems like it would all even out over time.

There are too many conditions and variables to account for, including terrain where you are when firing. Open desert is better, obviously. When you’re under a rock ledge in a draw it’s like having your head in a bucket when somebody throws a firecracker into the bucket… and if your brothers are offset half a step behind you when they light it up it’s about the same. Even barrel length matters. The newer short-barreled M4s were noticeably louder.

I’m glad I can hear as well as I can. Buddies fared worse. Some much worse. I figure if we’re visiting this forum we all have plenty to say grace over.

 

[Whaler27]

Shooting suppressed has greatly helped me

I do that now for recreational shooting on my ~.30 caliber rifles, but I’m afraid I’m about 100,000 rounds too late!

 

[Tugboat]

My left ear is quite a bit worse too, though I’m not sure why. I shot from every position, and had plenty of others firing around me. It seems like it would all even out over time.

There are too many conditions and variables to account for, including terrain where you are when firing. Open desert is better, obviously. When you’re under a rock ledge in a draw it’s like having your head in a bucket when somebody throws a firecracker into the bucket… and if your brothers are offset half a step behind you when they light it up it’s about the same. Even barrel length matters. The newer short-barreled M4s were noticeably louder.

I’m glad I can hear as well as I can. Buddies fared worse. Some much worse. I figure if we’re visiting this forum we all have plenty to say grace over.

M4 and CAR 15's very annoying allong with the miniguns we used as door guns - amen that we have plenty to say grace over