Warn Manual Locking Hubs vs. OEM Auto Locking Hubs

[knaffie]

135,000 miles of hard winters (lots of 4x4 use) and lots of towing heavy on my 2015 F350 and zero troubles with the hubs or unit bearings. The original unit bearings were still tight when I sold it. They're not garbage.

 

[Gus]

When in the "unlocked" position (again, really auto for the factory hubs) they are unlocked until you engage four wheel drive. When you engage four wheel drive inside the truck, it engages both the transfer case and applies vacuum to the hubs to lock them.

What you're talking about doing isn't a bad idea if you aren't engaging four wheel drive regularly. Part of my oil change servicing routine is to ensure I get the front differential spinning. I've just been throwing it in 4WD while on a straight section of road, but manually locking the hubs and going for a drive while staying in 2WD would also work.


There's two ways the front differential will spin:

1. The front hubs are locked. Movement of the truck will cause the front wheels to turn as a result of friction against the ground. With the hubs locked, the wheels are connected to the axle shafts causing them to turn. As a result, the front differential will turn, as will the front driveshaft.
2. The transfer case is in four wheel high or low. In this case the engine's power turns the front drive shaft, thus turning the front differential. As a result the front axle shafts will turn. If the hubs are unlocked (either a failure of the vacuum system or the truck has had manual hubs installed), that's where it ends. If the hubs are locked (either manually or via vacuum) the axle shafts will turn the front wheels.

So in summary, what you're saying is correct. Having them in the auto position while in two wheel drive prevents the front differential from spinning (and everything else up front - drive shaft and axle shafts). You're also correct that locking them in manually, without touching the 4WD knob inside the truck, will get everything spinning and lubed up if the truck is moving.

I was taught from very early to never engage 4 wheel drive if you were on pavement as it will bind up things

Has this changed?

 

[MTmudrunner]

135,000 miles of hard winters (lots of 4x4 use) and lots of towing heavy on my 2015 F350 and zero troubles with the hubs or unit bearings. The original unit bearings were still tight when I sold it. They're not garbage.

Seemed to work fine today chained up on all 4 and pulling hard today only trouble I have had with the auto is when it's -20 or so they didn't engage on some previous ford's but the manual always worked

 

[Gus]

Seemed to work fine today chained up on all 4 and pulling hard today only trouble I have had with the auto is when it's -20 or so they didn't engage on some previous ford's but the manual always worked View attachment 103839

Ummmmm, where is this North Canada lol

 

[MTmudrunner]

Ummmmm, where is this North Canada lol

a little further west and north going back in tomorrow to grab our elk I'll have the wife take some pictures today I was by myself some of the drifts were over the hood I pretty happy with the truck.

 

[Alpoba]

Seemed to work fine today chained up on all 4 and pulling hard today only trouble I have had with the auto is when it's -20 or so they didn't engage on some previous ford's but the manual always worked View attachment 103839

Already -20 on Montana? Damn thats cold

 

[MTmudrunner]

Already -20 on Montana? Damn thats cold

Not yet, 0 tonight but previous years with other ford's is when I had issues.

 

[ccw]

I was taught from very early to never engage 4 wheel drive if you were on pavement as it will bind up things

Has this changed?

Hasn’t changed, but there’s nuance to it. The simple answer is “never do it”. The more nuanced answer is “never do it while turning”.

The binding happens as a result of turning because the front and rear ends of the truck go different distances when turning (front greater than the rear). Thus the driveshafts want to turn at different speeds, but if they’re locked together in the transfer case that’s not possible. Something has to give.

On low traction surfaces that’s always traction. Your tires slip. On high traction surfaces, it will most likely be your tires…until something breaks.

If you’re going in a straight line there’s no difference in distance, thus no binding to occur and no risk of damage. I also wouldn’t do it for a super long distance as it’s tough to gauge just how straight a road actually is over that distance. But a half mile or mile in a straight line shouldn’t be an issue, and IMO that’s more than enough to get some fresh oil around the diff.

 

[Alpoba]

Hasn’t changed, but there’s nuance to it. The simple answer is “never do it”. The more nuanced answer is “never do it while turning”.

The binding happens as a result of turning because the front and rear ends of the truck go different distances when turning (front greater than the rear). Thus the driveshafts want to turn at different speeds, but if they’re locked together in the transfer case that’s not possible. Something has to give.

On low traction surfaces that’s always traction. Your tires slip. On high traction surfaces, it will most likely be your tires…until something breaks.

If you’re going in a straight line there’s no difference in distance, thus no binding to occur and no risk of damage. I also wouldn’t do it for a super long distance as it’s tough to gauge just how straight a road actually is over that distance. But a half mile or mile in a straight line shouldn’t be an issue, and IMO that’s more than enough to get some fresh oil around the diff.

You covered this before in another thread, but i still wish I understood it fully before trying to test turning on pavement in a 4x4 mode. I’m lucky that nothing broke that one time but i would never try it again with this knowledge.

 

[ccw]

Hasn’t changed, but there’s nuance to it. The simple answer is “never do it”. The more nuanced answer is “never do it while turning”.

The binding happens as a result of turning because the front and rear ends of the truck go different distances when turning (front greater than the rear). Thus the driveshafts want to turn at different speeds, but if they’re locked together in the transfer case that’s not possible. Something has to give.

On low traction surfaces that’s always traction. Your tires slip. On high traction surfaces, it will most likely be your tires…until something breaks.

If you’re going in a straight line there’s no difference in distance, thus no binding to occur and no risk of damage. I also wouldn’t do it for a super long distance as it’s tough to gauge just how straight a road actually is over that distance. But a half mile or mile in a straight line shouldn’t be an issue, and IMO that’s more than enough to get some fresh oil around the diff.

I will add to this: you have some wiggle room here. It doesn’t need to be literally, perfectly straight. All aspects of the system from the transfer case to the differentials to the hubs have some natural play to them. By design.

So if you make a slight movement to one side it won’t immediately bind up the system. This means you don’t need to be white knuckling your steering wheel, worried you can’t move it at all.

(These aren’t massive movements. Just the little corrections made to maintain lane position. But I think you would be surprised how far you can go before things actually start to bind up. Though test that on a low traction surface. )

You covered this before in another thread, but i still wish I understood it fully before trying to test turning on pavement in a 4x4 mode. I’m lucky that nothing broke that one time but i would never try it again with this knowledge.

Ya usually it won’t be an issue. These systems are pretty robust. But definitely not friendly to them, and repeatedly doing it will absolutely break something due to the additional stress.

Glad you understand it now!

 

[Gus]

Hasn’t changed, but there’s nuance to it. The simple answer is “never do it”. The more nuanced answer is “never do it while turning”.

The binding happens as a result of turning because the front and rear ends of the truck go different distances when turning (front greater than the rear). Thus the driveshafts want to turn at different speeds, but if they’re locked together in the transfer case that’s not possible. Something has to give.

On low traction surfaces that’s always traction. Your tires slip. On high traction surfaces, it will most likely be your tires…until something breaks.

If you’re going in a straight line there’s no difference in distance, thus no binding to occur and no risk of damage. I also wouldn’t do it for a super long distance as it’s tough to gauge just how straight a road actually is over that distance. But a half mile or mile in a straight line shouldn’t be an issue, and IMO that’s more than enough to get some fresh oil around the diff.

Thanks read it several time trying to visualize it and play connect the dots in my walnut sized brain

 

[Avslash]

The above is why you will see a "center" differential in full time 4wd vehicles like Land Rovers, Audi Quattros, Porsche Carrera4s, etc.

The "off road" oriented versions of those will have a lockable center differential (at least lockable to some degree) which makes them more akin to the way these trucks are set up when 4wd is engaged. The more mundane models might not have any lockup available at the center diff, or might vary it electronically to some maximum percentage.

My LR4, for instance, is full time 4wd with an open center differential. When you shift it into 4Lo, the center differential/transfer case has a clutch pack that engages to provide 100% lockup between front and rear. At that point it is directly analogous to our trucks as described above.

 

[Ninthwonder]

You guys plugging the vacuum line after switching to these hubs, or just leaving them hooked up?

 

[Alpoba]

You guys plugging the vacuum line after switching to these hubs, or just leaving them hooked up?

Gotta plug it to avoid vacuum leaks, even warn manual says so.

 

[Alpoba]

@Ninthwonder @BroncoHooves
It’s a very real and serious requirement. I know because my original installer did not do it and i had a pro correct the problem per spec.

 

[Melwinn]

Hi all,

Searched around a bit and didnt see alot outside of all the conversations talking about the WARN winches. I watched this video and have seen a couple random posts about the WARN locking hubs for our super duties and im wondering if anyone has experience with these? Love the look of the all black hubs, and the extra strength these are said to provide. I am a little unclear though on how 4WD works when you go to a manual locking hub. If you install these will you have to switch your truck to 4WD inside then go outside and lock the front two hubs for it to be functional?

Inside Switch: 2WD, Hubs Unlocked - Truck is in 2WD
Inside Switch: 4WD, Hubs Unlocked - Truck is still in 2WD?
Inside Switch: 2WD, Hubs Locked - Is the truck in 4WD?
Inside Switch: 4WD, Hubs Locked - Truck is in 4WD

Heres the install video i watched, the guy is hilarious but the install looks like a piece of cake:

And the hubs:

05-22 F250 & F350 Ford Performance WARN Manual Hubs M-1104-SD

www.stage3motorsports.com

Thanks for any input!

 

[Longrangehunter]

This bypasses the vacuum hub system, which has been hit or miss in Fords for a lot of years.

Locking the hubs engages the front axle, but your vehicle is still in 2WD (albeit with greater drag, moving the front running gear) until you shift the transfer case into 4WD. Conversely, if you shift the transfer case into 4WD, but do not lock the hubs, your front driveshaft and axle are spinning, but the hubs are disconnected and you are still in 2WD.

For a relatively new truck I leave them alone, as the vacuum system is still in good shape. I also don't want to get out in the mud or snow to lock them.

For my 2001 Excursion, the vacuum lines were starting to get brittle and leak, and the Warn hubs made a lot of sense.

But, at the end of the day, you can manually lock the Ford hubs and accomplish the same goal, so I don't see the point of the Warns unless you are keeping the truck forever.

 

[Alpoba]

If you install these will you have to switch your truck to 4WD inside then go outside and lock the front two hubs for it to be functional?

Yes

Inside Switch: 4WD, Hubs Unlocked - Truck is still in 2WD?

Yes

Inside Switch: 2WD, Hubs Locked - Is the truck in 4WD?

No

Inside Switch: 4WD, Hubs Locked - Truck is in 4WD

Yes

 

[HeavyAssault]

Want/need more traction while in 2WD? Use the ELD.

I'm happy with the Ford ESOF and 4WD systems. There's PLENTY of options for the regular users out there to get traction.

 

[Painless]

Has anyone tried to paint the OEM Hubs black? Pics?