No Key Detected

[deathfromafar17]

Well, the truck has been at the dealer since 8/9 with this issue. So far they've: replaced the BCM, replaced the BCM a second time, replaced the BCM a third time, performed a copis case to make sure the BCM is correct, had Ford engineers rewrite the programming for every other vehicle module to accept the new BCM, and now they are having difficulty with the Headlamp module.

The truck has been in the shop for 5 weeks for this issue, and 2 weeks for a previous issue. Anyone have any luck with buybacks or recompense for downtime? Naturally, the dealer doesn't have a loaner available.

Yes I know the buyback magic. Just did a 23 GMC. What state are you in and or PM me.

 

[Bog Hog]

So after 10 weeks, the dealership has figured out its actually the BCM Battery junction box under the hood. Between the many posts on the forum about this, and the nationally backordered part, It seems it might be a common water intrusion issue. We're looking at a 11/15 part availability.

Also, the Ford buyback case was officially submitted on 10/3, and has gone nowhere. Ford did give me the go ahead to rent a vehicle on my own @ $60/day and I would be paid back after 3 months.

I have an upcoming trip in December that requires pulling with the gooseneck. Has anyone had luck finding a rental place that allows/has provisions for a gooseneck trailer?

 

[T-P]

Maybe try Turo?

 

[deathfromafar17]

Stick with it. Mine took (cant remember) 6-12 months,

 

[J 2]

I don't know the lemon law in Michigan, but in CA it's 30 days in the shop for warranty repair of any type. Does not have to be consecutive days either. I went through this last year after rear end repair, transmission replacement, then engine bad backordered 14 months. 2019 F150 at 59,600 miles when engine went bad.

Called Ford customer service to open case. Spoke to my rep couple days later. Approved in 3 days. Took about 2 weeks to negotiate the final payout and they were I believe more than fair by reducing the mileage deduction by half. Miles at first repair XXXX / 120,000. Total cash price divided by 120,000 times miles driven before first repair.

Hope this ends well for you. The frustration of not having the truck to use as we do was the worst. The attorney route may get you compensated for loss of use, but obviously takes time. CA lemon law attorneys all take the case on contingency when they see dollar signs. I choose the easy route, simply pay me back and take this thing.

 

[J 2]

One more thing. Other manufacturers use the Better Business Bureau Autoline for the lemon law buyback. The process is monitored by a arbitrator and has time limits and deadlines. Not sure if Ford subscribes to this method.

 

[LT75]

So after 10 weeks, the dealership has figured out its actually the BCM Battery junction box under the hood. Between the many posts on the forum about this, and the nationally backordered part, It seems it might be a common water intrusion issue. We're looking at a 11/15 part availability.

Also, the Ford buyback case was officially submitted on 10/3, and has gone nowhere. Ford did give me the go ahead to rent a vehicle on my own @ $60/day and I would be paid back after 3 months.

I have an upcoming trip in December that requires pulling with the gooseneck. Has anyone had luck finding a rental place that allows/has provisions for a gooseneck trailer?

I would tell them you’re contacting an attorney. I had this issue with Toyota. They’re going to want to buy it back before the lemon law process starts. Once it’s deemed a lemon, they cannot resell it. That’s why dealers usually buy back before that.

 

[deathfromafar17]

One more thing. Other manufacturers use the Better Business Bureau Autoline for the lemon law buyback. The process is monitored by a arbitrator and has time limits and deadlines. Not sure if Ford subscribes to this method.

Depending on the state they may not have a choice (Like NC)

 

[Bog Hog]

Well. After 13 weeks, the truck is finally back in the garage. The underhood junction box was the culprit, and while the dealer wouldn't say/didn't look into what the physical problem actually was, the truck is repaired and working as intended. As previously alluded to in this thread, this turned out to be a simple electrical issue and my local dealers incompetence has really shown through. Anyone have a good dealer option in metro-Detroit?

Ford corporate has offered roughly 8% of MSRP as the cash-and-keep option.

 

[Modman]

Anyone have a good dealer option in metro-Detroit?

Ford corporate has offered roughly 8% of MSRP as the cash-and-keep option.

Glad you have your truck back!

8% actually seems pretty good to me, considering how high the MSRP is and the fact that the junction box is, unfortunately, a fairly common culprit.

Regarding dealers, Varsity Ford in AA has good feedback from friends of mine that have used them. I am looking myself as my go-to dealer was just swallowed by a conglomerate and gone downhill imo. I may also give Blackwell a try since they are close to me, although smaller, which may be a good thing, actually.

 

[Whaler27]

Well. After 13 weeks, the truck is finally back in the garage. The underhood junction box was the culprit, and while the dealer wouldn't say/didn't look into what the physical problem actually was, the truck is repaired and working as intended. As previously alluded to in this thread, this turned out to be a simple electrical issue and my local dealers incompetence has really shown through. Anyone have a good dealer option in metro-Detroit?

Ford corporate has offered roughly 8% of MSRP as the cash-and-keep option.

View attachment 180296

Glad you got your truck back!

I have no idea what they would be willing to pay, but 8% of MSRP is about the size of the discount we’re hearing about on the new trucks that are well loaded. If they have to take the truck back their loss will be a multiple of 8% of MSRP. Maybe they’ll pay more?

There are many new Tremors around now. If it was me, I’d see what the new deals look like nearby. If you can find just what you want, I’d be inclined to counter-offer more money to keep the truck — maybe $12,000?

On the other hand, your truck is beautiful, there is nothing wrong with it now, and there’s some value in just putting this BS behind you. If you’d kick yourself for letting it go, I’d take the $8,000 and call it a day. I only play chicken when I’ll be just as happy if I lose.

 

[knaffie]

If your truck wasn't so new I would suspect the FOB battery, but doubtful.

I've had numerous rental cars that were under 1000 miles and the fob batteries needed to be replaced for this very same reason. I was skeptical the first time it happened, but it definitely fixed the problem.

 

[Vermonster]

only time I had this happen was when I forgot to reconnect the harness after removing and reinstalling the center console for the HAM install. I believe there were three harnesses, and I missed the one. Hooked it back up and was fine. If you didn’t do any work it sounds like something failed or was cooked.

Well this actually happened to me this weekend while on a road trip to Maine. This was the first time ever and it was under normal operating procedure. We were leaving Kittery Trading Post (great place we always visit while in Maine) and I pressed the start button only to hear the chime and see "no key detected" on the cluster.

The back story...

Oddly, just prior to this failure, on the way into Kittery Trading Post, I has noticed when I exited the truck it said no key detected, but I had the key in my jacket and figured that maybe that was the issue (which would have been the first time, though). I locked upon closing the door with the driver door key pad, and went inside with my wife.

The whole time I was looking at new firepower in the store I was wondering if the valet where we stayed the night before cloned my keys or maybe someone was trying to steal the truck. You can tell my mind goes deep on these things, but when I returned (30 minutes later) it was like I didn't have the key with me. I took the key out of my pocket - put it in the console (not the key program area) and there was nothing when I pressed the start/stop button. Just the "no key detected" again with the chime.

Using the key fob I then locked and unlocked the truck and it worked. Now remembering when I forgot to plug in that module (as mentioned in my quoted post) the lock and unlock did work then too - just the start/stop would not. It must be something in the software or a failing module...but this was the first and only time it's happened to me. It that didn't work, I had planned on using remote start and hoping I could then get it out of park if the fob would be recognized enough, luckily I didn't have to go that far, and I am happy I didn't have to have it towed on a Sunday night to a dealer. Good lord.

 

[Modman]

Well this actually happened to me this weekend while on a road trip to Maine. This was the first time ever and it was under normal operating procedure. We were leaving Kittery Trading Post (great place we always visit while in Maine) and I pressed the start button only to hear the chime and see "no key detected" on the cluster.

The back story...

Oddly, just prior to this failure, on the way into Kittery Trading Post, I has noticed when I exited the truck it said no key detected, but I had the key in my jacket and figured that maybe that was the issue (which would have been the first time, though). I locked upon closing the door with the driver door key pad, and went inside with my wife.

The whole time I was looking at new firepower in the store I was wondering if the valet where we stayed the night before cloned my keys or maybe someone was trying to steal the truck. You can tell my mind goes deep on these things, but when I returned (30 minutes later) it was like I didn't have the key with me. I took the key out of my pocket - put it in the console (not the key program area) and there was nothing when I pressed the start/stop button. Just the "no key detected" again with the chime.

Using the key fob I then locked and unlocked the truck and it worked. Now remembering when I forgot to plug in that module (as mentioned in my quoted post) the lock and unlock did work then too - just the start/stop would not. It must be something in the software or a failing module...but this was the first and only time it's happened to me. It that didn't work, I had planned on using remote start and hoping I could then get it out of park if the fob would be recognized enough, luckily I didn't have to go that far, and I am happy I didn't have to have it towed on a Sunday night to a dealer. Good lord.

Man, glad it didn't turn into a larger issue! I've had it happen a few times but I've chalked it up to location in a pocket/jacket/etc. When I take it out it works. That would totally suck to lose connectivity while away on vacation!!

 

[Vermonster]

Man, glad it didn't turn into a larger issue! I've had it happen a few times but I've chalked it up to location in a pocket/jacket/etc. When I take it out it works. That would totally suck to lose connectivity while away on vacation!!

I was thinking that too regarding the clothing - maybe there was too much RF around that area. Seems unlikely on the RF, but it's very odd. I did have a F350 (iconic silver fx4) do a loop around my truck while it was parked - I just figured it was a fan and not someone testing out a flipper or something.

 

[Mad_Max]

I'v had it happen to me a few times when my keys were in my bag on the floor behind the driver's seat. Once I took them out of my bag and had it in my hand it worked. While not the extreme case as some have had, it was surprising. I chalked it up to a low fob battery or possibly interference from a very RF noisy environment we live in. Later I tested the remote start from in my office several floors up and it worked fine so it's not the fob battery. That leaves RF interference or another more serious issue going on. Luckily for me it has worked once I had the keys in hand and it has been too infrequent to report it as a problem.

 

[Vermonster]

I'v had it happen to me a few times when my keys were in my bag on the floor behind the driver's seat. Once I took them out of my bag and had it in my hand it worked. While not the extreme case as some have had, it was surprising. I chalked it up to a low fob battery or possibly interference from a very RF noisy environment we live in. Later I tested the remote start from in my office several floors up and it worked fine so it's not the fob battery. That leaves RF interference or another more serious issue going on. Luckily for me it has worked once I had the keys in hand and it has been too infrequent to report it as a problem.

Helpful to know - and helpful to think we have a similar mindset.

I never carry a second fob with me - it's sitting at home in a Faraday bag. So if one gave up the ghost, I would be pretty screwed! Maybe I will toss a spare battery in the truck, just in case. (it's a CR-2450) and here is a video of changing it if anyone needs to know. ps - not my video.

 

[Canyon Trekker]

Helpful to know - and helpful to think we have a similar mindset.

I never carry a second fob with me - it's sitting at home in a Faraday bag. So if one gave up the ghost, I would be pretty screwed! Maybe I will toss a spare battery in the truck, just in case. (it's a CR-2450) and here is a video of changing it if anyone needs to know. ps - not my video.

Just a note for general troubleshooting, almost ALWAYS, the problem in electronics can be traced to a prior incident that caused the issue in the first place, or the simple answer, a connection or power source dying. (Excluding poor design and allowing water to enter the electronics...)

Key fobs do fail due to electronic interference from other "high powered" sources, not generally, other key fobs. It would be highly unlikely that two fobs had the same coding and near enough to cause the other to fail. They are very low power and can be positioned to where they can lose the signal, even for an instant under the right conditions, and cause a communication failure. Many times, communications require resetting the power to reestablish a proper connection. (Blame the programmers...)

As a career electronic troubleshooter and at the top of the food chain with service technicians in my field back in the day, I can tell you I have seen some of the most bizarre failures in many forms. But the reality is that most issues were due to a simple fault related to misuse (unknown action that caused the issue) or "incorrect" diagnosis of a device, or a simple failure caused by the environment. (Corrosion in connectors or loose mechanical anything.)

In other words, the problem was generally caused by the user or inadvertent circumstance, that caused the issue.

Back in the day while working for the company, and after correct diagnosis in reporting my findings, I had to be very careful on wording to avoid conflict with customers explaining how they may have caused their issue or overlooked a simple explanation. (And got a bill that knocked their socks off... not from me but the company I worked for.)

Contrary to popular belief, many, if not most, electronic failures boil down to the simplest explanation and not an exotic one. I always look for the simplest answer before going too deep. The fact is, todays electronics are very reliable with regards to design, the manufacturing, not as much.

I only point this out because so many people that don't understand the electronics look for magic smoke and ghosts, when all along it's a simple failure. Start with the simplest denominator (battery and connections) and work in. If you go past three steps in your analysis, start over, you probably missed something.

Posting only for help, not critique, there are those corner cases beyond simple explanation.

 

[Vermonster]

Just a note for general troubleshooting, almost ALWAYS, the problem in electronics can be traced to a prior incident that caused the issue in the first place, or the simple answer, a connection or power source dying. (Excluding poor design and allowing water to enter the electronics...)

Key fobs do fail due to electronic interference from other "high powered" sources, not generally, other key fobs. It would be highly unlikely that two fobs had the same coding and near enough to cause the other to fail. They are very low power and can be positioned to where they can lose the signal, even for an instant under the right conditions, and cause a communication failure. Many times, communications require resetting the power to reestablish a proper connection. (Blame the programmers...)

As a career electronic troubleshooter and at the top of the food chain with service technicians in my field back in the day, I can tell you I have seen some of the most bizarre failures in many forms. But the reality is that most issues were due to a simple fault related to misuse (unknown action that caused the issue) or "incorrect" diagnosis of a device, or a simple failure caused by the environment. (Corrosion in connectors or loose mechanical anything.)

In other words, the problem was generally caused by the user or inadvertent circumstance, that caused the issue.

Back in the day while working for the company, and after correct diagnosis in reporting my findings, I had to be very careful on wording to avoid conflict with customers explaining how they may have caused their issue or overlooked a simple explanation. (And got a bill that knocked their socks off... not from me but the company I worked for.)

Contrary to popular belief, many, if not most, electronic failures boil down to the simplest explanation and not an exotic one. I always look for the simplest answer before going too deep. The fact is, todays electronics are very reliable with regards to design, the manufacturing, not as much.

I only point this out because so many people that don't understand the electronics look for magic smoke and ghosts, when all along it's a simple failure. Start with the simplest denominator (battery and connections) and work in. If you go past three steps in your analysis, start over, you probably missed something.

Posting only for help, not critique, there are those corner cases beyond simple explanation.

I remember this when I trouble shoot. I had a guy totally lost on a job once. We were doing some electronics on his motorcycle and the first thing I asked was whether or not he checked the fuse. Welp - that was the issue! Lol

I will change the battery in my fob just to be sure. That could be it.

 

[Canyon Trekker]

I remember this when I trouble shoot. I had a guy totally lost on a job once. We were doing some electronics on his motorcycle and the first thing I asked was whether or not he checked the fuse. Welp - that was the issue! Lol

I will change the battery in my fob just to be sure. That could be it.

Reminds me of one I was looking at many years ago where there was an instrument that was deemed BER (beyond economical repair) and returned from the factory after replacing countless modules. So, being the inquisitive one, I had to figure it out. Turned out that one of the fuse holders in the reference supply was corroded; the fuse had been replaced several times. The corrosion caused some power supplies (600-700V) to go even higher, (1100V) and the instrument would not produce signals. Replaced the fuse holder and voila! It worked fine.

I had that fuse holder on a plaque hung up in the lab with the words under it:
"Sometimes the most difficult problem is simple."