Larger fuel tank for 7.3

[LGTremor]

School canceled in class learning today because some snow fell over night and my 5 and 7 year olds are home. Needed a break from that so I checked out the more recent threads on the forum. Even though I own a gasser still look at 6.7 related posts and this AM watched a video on a fellow installing a S&B 60 gallon tank in his garage.
This got me thinking...
I did not see during a quick google search any legal issues with having a larger gas tank. The biggest argument was having more gas is having more weight and that gets you lower economy.
Next I looked at chemistry differences between diesel and gasoline tanks and read they both use HDPE.
What I do not know is the differences between the 6.7 and the 7.3 fuel sending units with respect to the tank opening and attachment configuration (diameter/bolt pattern and such).
I also don’t know if the 6.7 and the 7.3 tanks differ internally with respect to the cavity the sending units sit in or if there are other connections to the tanks that differ.

What if they were the same?
Would you be able to use the extended range tanks sold for diesel in the 7.3?
I know there is a recess in the S&B tank that holds the water separator and in the case of gas would not be used although how bad of an idea would that be because
I’m sure there are stations that pump crap gas and you can get your fair share of water that combines with the ethanol and settles out.

Anyhoo, thinking out loud here. Do companies that make extended range tanks for diesel only do so because there is no demand for larger gas tanks or is there some regulation that did not come up in my search that prevents them?

Any thoughts or has this been covered in in excess already?

 

[thevol]

The tank should physically mount up the same, but there are epa and dot safety regulations with gas that make them more difficult to get certified. It can be done but the demand has to be there to justify the extra work. The 7.3 is very new and gaining in popularity quickly for people towing so its just a matter of time before someone gets this done. A 60 gal would be ideal so it goes beyond the 48 gal in the long bed. And yes it has been covered but I know it can be hard to search for specific answers on the forums.

 

[cookiemonster]

Check out this petition to show Transfer Flow there's interest:

Sign the official petition for Transfer Flow to make a replacement tank for gasoline Super Duty's!!

Transfer Flow is, to my knowledge, the only company with a 50-state legal replacement tank for the F150. Certifying a replacement gasoline tank with the EPA and the CARB represents a significant financial investment on a company. Please sign this petition to show Transfer Flow that Super Duty...

www.fordtremor.com

 

[soulezoo]

The tank should physically mount up the same, but there are epa and dot safety regulations with gas that make them more difficult to get certified. It can be done but the demand has to be there to justify the extra work. The 7.3 is very new and gaining in popularity quickly for people towing so its just a matter of time before someone gets this done. A 60 gal would be ideal so it goes beyond the 48 gal in the long bed. And yes it has been covered but I know it can be hard to search for specific answers on the forums.

I'd be super happy with the 48 gal!

 

[Chuck]

I'd be super happy with the 48 gal!

Both of my f150's have a 36 gal tank and my 7.3 f250 only has a 32 gal. Kind of BS if you ask me. Yes 48 gal would be great.

 

[DarinH]

Yeah, it's annoying that the factory doesn't offer a 48 gallon option for the 7.3L Tremor. There's plenty of room for it.

 

[oops]

Welcome to the “why do I have to gas up this truck every damn day I better see what the internet says” club!

 

[OTG-Tremor-CG]

School canceled in class learning today because some snow fell over night and my 5 and 7 year olds are home. Needed a break from that so I checked out the more recent threads on the forum. Even though I own a gasser still look at 6.7 related posts and this AM watched a video on a fellow installing a S&B 60 gallon tank in his garage.
This got me thinking...
I did not see during a quick google search any legal issues with having a larger gas tank. The biggest argument was having more gas is having more weight and that gets you lower economy.
Next I looked at chemistry differences between diesel and gasoline tanks and read they both use HDPE.
What I do not know is the differences between the 6.7 and the 7.3 fuel sending units with respect to the tank opening and attachment configuration (diameter/bolt pattern and such).
I also don’t know if the 6.7 and the 7.3 tanks differ internally with respect to the cavity the sending units sit in or if there are other connections to the tanks that differ.

What if they were the same?
Would you be able to use the extended range tanks sold for diesel in the 7.3?
I know there is a recess in the S&B tank that holds the water separator and in the case of gas would not be used although how bad of an idea would that be because
I’m sure there are stations that pump crap gas and you can get your fair share of water that combines with the ethanol and settles out.

Anyhoo, thinking out loud here. Do companies that make extended range tanks for diesel only do so because there is no demand for larger gas tanks or is there some regulation that did not come up in my search that prevents them?

Any thoughts or has this been covered in in excess already?

Great Questions! I posted comments to a similar question on the following thread ----> S&B 60 Gallon Fuel Tank. Here is a copy of the original #95 post.

Has anyone with the 7.3L gas found an extended tank? Everything I find is only for diesel.

No. However, following is my 2 + 3 = __ answer. You can fill in the blank after reading my comments. In early 2020, I looked up the Ford OEM fuel tanks for both diesel and gas trucks using VINs from 160 WB trucks listed for sale on CarGurus. SAME Part Number, which indicates the diameter / size of the opening for the pump / sender assembly is the same.

After that, I called S & B and talked to an engineer to ask questions. During the conversation, he stated there is a lot of government red tape obtaining approval and very expensive. I mentioned extra capacity fuel tanks for gasoline engine trucks were available back in 2007 and prior years. Why not now? He stated the CARB and other EPA emission regulations along with DOT safety concerns of gasoline being more volatile (combustible) than diesel fuel. He was very cordial and informative. On the other hand, a couple of my questions he responded by saying "no comment"...which in turn basically answered my question on whether the tank they market for "diesel engine" trucks...would actually work in a gas engine truck. After my conversation with the S & B engineer, I would fill in the blank above with the number 5...but, I could be wrong. To say it plainly another way, I think the diesel fuel tank marketed by S & B would actually work in a gas engine truck.

Although other questions inevitably pop up.

1. What about the internal baffles...the same or different between diesel and gasoline tanks?

2. What about the capacity and size of EVAP canister required? In other words, is a larger EVAP canister needed to support a larger gasoline fuel tank?

The safety / volatile concern is also seen in all the aftermarket "auxiliary fuel tanks". Evidently, it is OK to use a "transfer fuel tank" to transport and transfer gasoline, but it is not OK to use an aftermarket auxiliary fuel tank whether gravity or pump fed to supplement gasoline fuel capacity.

There is a thread on this forum with information about Transfer Flow...a company in California...a tank for gas engine trucks now in R & D and possible production. The Transfer Flow tanks are made from steel, while the Titan and S & B tanks are made from High Density Cross Linked Polyethelene. (XLHDPE).

 

[Loshad]

Interesting, OTG. I’d bet good money that putting the S&B into a gasser would void both your warranty and your insurance.

 

[OTG-Tremor-CG]

Yeah, it's annoying that the factory doesn't offer a 48 gallon option for the 7.3L Tremor. There's plenty of room for it.

Exactly.....Very Annoying!!! Ford probably does not want the liability (lawsuit) issues and problems with providing a larger fuel tank for gasoline engine trucks because of the volatility (gasoline more combustible than diesel fuel)...since the larger capacity (longer) tank would extend under the cab (passenger compartment). After owning a multi-line insurance agency for 24 years, I can assure you the insurance companies do not want that added risk either. Moreover, the insurance industry most likely has made that stance crystal clear to both lobbyists and the NHTSA. Add in the EPA with CARB along with DOT and you can easily see all the big "nanny state" government bureaucratic red tape in order to protect you, your family, your friends, your co-workers (people riding in your truck) from your or someone else's potential negligence.

 

[BroncoHooves]

From my post in another tank thread:

"I did some research and it seems the reason why large tanks for gas aren't available is due to a larger evaporative emissions charcoal canister required in addition to a CARB approval"

Simply installing a larger tank won't work since you will end up with a check engine light for evap.

 

[OTG-Tremor-CG]

Interesting, OTG. I’d bet good money that putting the S&B into a gasser would void both your warranty and your insurance.

Excellent Comment! At the risk of stating more information than many people will want to know in the following comments.

Two Comments on your "void warranty and insurance" statement.

1. Warranty: From what I have read...various threads on this forum and other Ford truck forums...the Warranty being applicable in regards to ANY modifications being made to the truck can vary from dealer to dealer. I asked the dealer in Wyoming (Fleet Sales Manager) about that exact issue before I placed the order on a 2022 F350 Lariat 7.3L UP - BAP - Tremor with Warn winch. He was emphatic and made it crystal clear their dealership would only deny warranty claims as a direct result of any aftermarket modifications. In other words, the accessories, parts, etc. would have to CAUSE the problem related to the resulting warranty claim.

2. Insurance: Short Reply - Depends upon the individual company and the language / wording in the Liability Coverage and Collision Coverage. Long Reply - I did not previously make any statements regarding the insurance aspect because that discussion can quickly get very detailed and involved. That said, I previously owned a multi-insurance agency in Colorado for 24 years. I was one of the few agents that quite often got "lawyer like" in the ways listed below.

Three Additional Points:

First - NUMEROUS questions with claims adjusters, underwriters, middle management (which very much respected me)...and even some attorneys.

Second - On several occasions, Reading and Interpreting the coverage for the adjuster, underwriter, etc....the language and wording in the policy. My clients appreciated my agency's interceding on their behalf and this fact was reflected in the agency "retention ratio". Most multi-line insurance agents are lazy...not at all professional and VERY much akin to the car salesmen we have all dealt with at different dealerships. It amazes me how lazy these people (both insurance agents and car salesmen) are. The vast majority do not read up, comprehend and understand the products they offer and sell. Anyway, I know a fair amount regarding "policy (contract) language", liability claims, underwriting philosophy (coverage vs non coverage - the reasons - why and why not).

Third - Insurance Policy (Contracts) 101:

Part 1: Principal of Indemnity - it is the insurance company's obligation to restore the insured or claimant back to their original position prior to the loss. The concept of DIMINSHED VALUE regarding slight to severe collision damage can be a problem for consumers, especially people that have no knowledge of this concept. Insureds and Claimants leave $$$ thousands of dollars $$$ on the table regarding their auto claims. Liability Claims.....a HUGE "can of worms"...many people retain attorneys when they would be much better off settling directly with the insurance company. The problem is...insurance consumers do not know "the rules to that game" and how to play it. GREAT insurance agents, liability claims adjusters and attorneys certainly know the rules to the liability settlement game.

Part 2: COVERED / NOT COVERED (aka, Exclusions) - My brief synopsis to every client regarding their insurance policies was this: The policy language / wording is either WHITE (Covered), BLACK (Not Covered) or GRAY (White / Light Gray - Covered vs Charcoal / Dark Gray - Not Covered). The Insured (Policyholder) does not need an agent, adjuster or attorney to interpret the WHITE or BLACK language / wording...it is "crystal clear" to anyone who can read. Most consumers are surprised to learn that fact. On the other hand, it is the GRAY language / wording in the policy that can get very tricky. This is the reason why consumers need a GREAT insurance agent...or attorney if necessary. Private Adjusters...who help consumers for a fee are becoming more common place.

FINAL NOTE: During my tenure as a multi-line insurance agency owner, it was always interesting to me and somewhat fascinating to know, realize and understand that virtually every insurance consumer, including, but not limited to accountants, attorneys (YES even lawyers), doctors, dentists, engineers, politicians, real estate agents, etc. with only one notable exception was not able to formulate general, much less specific questions regarding their various insurance policies...unless they had a bad / negative claims experience. Simply put, most people do not know what questions to ask their insurance agent. The notable exception would be Personal Injury Attorneys. However, they only had a great to excellent understanding of the LIABILITY and UM / UIM coverage...but often little if any knowledge of the other coverage. Moreover, none of these professionals would never state they "I do not know what questions to ask.....please tell me what I need to know."

 

[ccw]

1. Warranty: From what I have read...various threads on this forum and other Ford truck forums...the Warranty being applicable in regards to ANY modifications being made to the truck can vary from dealer to dealer. I asked the dealer in Wyoming (Fleet Sales Manager) about that exact issue before I placed the order on a 2022 F350 Lariat 7.3L UP - BAP - Tremor with Warn winch. He was emphatic and made it crystal clear their dealership would only deny warranty claims as a direct result of any aftermarket modifications. In other words, the accessories, parts, etc. would have to CAUSE the problem related to the resulting warranty claim.

While I’m not a lawyer, it’s worth noting that by law vehicle manufacturers can only deny warranty claims if they can show an aftermarket part caused the failure. So basically that dealer was stating what they are legally obligated to do.

What can vary is how much of a fight you’ll face. Sometimes the dealer and/or Ford itself will push hard that the aftermarket part did cause the problem to get out of the warranty claim and your only recourse is to take them to court. Not a very compelling option due to the cost.

Fantastic post, though!

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[1FORDy3rd]

What is the the factory tank capacity?? I’ve seen 32, 34, and 36. I’ve got my gauge down to 42 miles to empty and could only squeeze 24 gallons into it. Which leads me to think either my gauge is off or I have less than 30g capacity. I too am in search of options but looks like a transfer tank might be the most immediate option.

 

[OTG-Tremor-CG]

From my post in another tank thread:

"I did some research and it seems the reason why large tanks for gas aren't available is due to a larger evaporative emissions charcoal canister required in addition to a CARB approval"

Simply installing a larger tank won't work since you will end up with a check engine light for evap.

Great Comment! Might be good to post your comment on the thread here regarding the potential Transfer Flow larger tank for the 7.3L gas engine. As I previously mentioned, there should be no difference in the fuel tank per se.....but the bureaucratic red tape with the EPA and CARB emissions, along with NHTSA and possibly DOT. Even if Transfer Flow jumps through all of those hoops, the FEES for CARB approval can be substantial / cost prohibitive.

So.....now I am wondering if it would still be possible to make this mid ship fuel tank modification work the 7.3L gas engine trucks. .....by using a DIFFERENT (larger) Evaporative Emissions Charcoal Canister from another Ford OEM application.....like from a F650 / F750 with the 7.3L gas engine and 6R140. ??? Would that resolve the Check Engine Light (CEL)? What about an Aft Axle fuel tank and corresponding EVAP emissions charcoal canister that is found on the Chassis Cab trucks? The older Super Duty trucks had different frame widths for Pickups and Chassis Cabs. If that is still the case that option will not work.

 

[ccw]

What is the the factory tank capacity?? I’ve seen 32, 34, and 36. I’ve got my gauge down to 42 miles to empty and could only squeeze 24 gallons into it. Which leads me to think either my gauge is off or I have less than 30g capacity. I too am in search of options but looks like a transfer tank might be the most immediate option.

34 gallons. Remember that there’s also a reserve. When it reads 0 miles to empty, it still has some left.

 

[OTG-Tremor-CG]

While I’m not a lawyer, it’s worth noting that by law vehicle manufacturers can only deny warranty claims if they can show an aftermarket part caused the failure. So basically that dealer was stating what they are legally obligated to do.

What can vary is how much of a fight you’ll face. Sometimes the dealer and/or Ford itself will push hard that the aftermarket part did cause the problem to get out of the warranty claim and your only recourse is to take them to court. Not a very compelling option due to the cost.

Fantastic post, though!

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes, you are exactly and precisely correct...especially the FIGHT with the dealer part. I was aware of the MMW Act, but failed to post it. Besides, it is great to have ideas, facts, opinions, thoughts from other people.....that is how we all learn.