Impact separation in all 4 OEM tires

[Dirt_Diver]

My truck was floating all over the lane on day one. Then it started to vibrate like the tires were out of balance by 1500 miles. I took it to the dealership at 3000 miles to have the tires rotated and balanced. Nothing changed. I pulled a tire and checked the balance on my personal Hunter equipment and it was out by 5+oz inside and 3+oz outside. Removed the weights and attempted to balance on my machine and it wouldn't balance. I inspected the tires and found knots on all 4 tires. Hard to get a picture of this, but I tried my best to capture the knots. Outstanding service by my local dealership to send me on my way towing with tires that are separating lol. The truck has basically only been used for towing (8k lb TT), but no real stress on the tires. I've seen lots of mentions of aggressive vibration in these trucks. Be sure to inspect your tires! These were clearly defective from the factory.

Each knot on the outside has a symmetrical knot on the inside.

 

[Mike Alcocer]

If it feels like a slight indent on the tire sidewall then that is normal. That is a section of belt over lap or under lap. Check the spare it will have the same thing too. Being symmetric on both sides is definitely a clue to this as well. 4 tire separations would be super rare.

As for the vibration issue. When was the last time you calibrated the tire balancer? What cone setup was used? Preferred would be a back cone with a lug plate on the clamp side. Dealer may also be out of calibration. Best would be to find a place that has a Coats ultra sonic balancer.

Other suspects could be improper wheel torque or a host of drivetrain issues. You would be surprised how many places still don't torque wheels.

 

[Dirt_Diver]

If it feels like a slight indent on the tire sidewall then that is normal. That is a section of belt over lap or under lap. Check the spare it will have the same thing too. Being symmetric on both sides is definitely a clue to this as well. 4 tire separations would be super rare.

As for the vibration issue. When was the last time you calibrated the tire balancer? What cone setup was used? Preferred would be a back cone with a lug plate on the clamp side. Dealer may also be out of calibration. Best would be to find a place that has a Coats ultra sonic balancer.

Other suspects could be improper wheel torque or a host of drivetrain issues. You would be surprised how many places still don't torque wheels.

I obviously know nothing of the calibration on their equipment, but I checked the calibration on mine and it is correct. The only Hunter model above mine is a Road Force. It's not an equipment issue on mine. I don't have a lug plate. I used a cone just as I have on every other tire I've balanced on my machine. I'm no pro, but I've never had an issue balancing anything up to 37's. I've seen indentations on tires where the belting is assembled (they are on these as well), but I've never seen a tire that has a bulge this pronounced. I did go outside and check the spare. I couldn't feel a bulge anywhere on the side I could reach.

 

[Mike Alcocer]

The reason I mention using a back cone is that most stock wheels including these are hub centric. The back of the rims hub hole is what is interacting with the vehicle to create balance. If you are using a cone from the front then you are not balancing in the correct plane that is interacting with the vehicle. You can achieve balance of the assembly this way but it will be different then when mounted on the vehicle. This matters more on larger/taller tires.

You can balance a wheel using the front cone method and move it to a different machine and immediately get a different balance. You can take it off the same machine, rotate 90 degrees and be off again.

The reason I mention this is I only see 1 of 10 shops actually using the balancer the correct way. The most common mistake is not using back cones with lug plates on the front side.

I think what you are observing, based on the picture you sent is the belt over lap. It is typically shaped like two fingers next to each other. A bit of a raise then a dip then a bit of a raise.

I am not doubting you or your equipment. Just throwing out knowledge from running a tire shop for a decade. But I am not there to see what's going on. I would push the dealer to install 4 new tires to rule out this issue and see what happens from there.

 

[Mike Alcocer]

Another thought just occurred to me as well. Does it sound like anything is inside the tire? Best way to check is with no air in and the valve out. Bounce it a bit.

Some tires end up with a bit too much wax on the inside and some piece of debris starts to accumulate that wax. End up with small balls flying around inside and you can never get them to balance.

 

[Dirt_Diver]

The reason I mention using a back cone is that most stock wheels including these are hub centric. The back of the rims hub hole is what is interacting with the vehicle to create balance. If you are using a cone from the front then you are not balancing in the correct plane that is interacting with the vehicle. You can achieve balance of the assembly this way but it will be different then when mounted on the vehicle. This matters more on larger/taller tires.

You can balance a wheel using the front cone method and move it to a different machine and immediately get a different balance. You can take it off the same machine, rotate 90 degrees and be off again.

The reason I mention this is I only see 1 of 10 shops actually using the balancer the correct way. The most common mistake is not using back cones with lug plates on the front side.

I think what you are observing, based on the picture you sent is the belt over lap. It is typically shaped like two fingers next to each other. A bit of a raise then a dip then a bit of a raise.

I am not doubting you or your equipment. Just throwing out knowledge from running a tire shop for a decade. But I am not there to see what's going on. I would push the dealer to install 4 new tires to rule out this issue and see what happens from there.

I appreciate your knowledge. I did notice that the wheels were hub centric when I pulled the lugs. I don't have the tooling to setup the proper way for these wheels as you described. I don't own a tire shop or even know why I own tire equipment. Just one of those impulse purchases after getting annoyed dealing with awful local tire shops over the years lol. It may very well be belting overlap with zero separation, but that should put these at #2 or worse quality. Not what you expect on a vehicle this expensive. The dome shape instead of a linear bulge seems off though. I'm going to take it to the dealership and get them replaced either way. I'll order the tooling I need from Hunter after I use up the free ford pass points so I can setup properly the way you described. ?

 

[Dirt_Diver]

Another thought just occurred to me as well. Does it sound like anything is inside the tire? Best way to check is with no air in and the valve out. Bounce it a bit.

Some tires end up with a bit too much wax on the inside and some piece of debris starts to accumulate that wax. End up with small balls flying around inside and you can never get them to balance.

I didn't deflate the one tire I checked. I noticed the bulge and stopped since I didn't want to waste time messing with a tire if it was bad. It looked like the balancer was chasing a bad tire (or maybe a bad setup on my part since I didn't have the lug plate). I normally put the weights on and the next spin is perfectly zeroed. On this wheel, I spun after applying the weights and it showed 0.75 oz required inside and outside. When it did that I inspected the tire.

 

[Mike Alcocer]

I don't own a tire shop or even know why I own tire equipment. Just one of those impulse purchases after getting annoyed dealing with awful local tire shops over the years lol.

Lol nice. I have a garage full of impulse purchases.

I hate dealing with tire shops now that I am out of the business. I would have to have the equipment to do my own. Had you brought this to me, back when I was in the business, I wouldn't have an issue throwing new tires on it. Goodyear covers the cost on them anyway and it starts eliminating issues.

If you couldn't get it to balance I suspect there is some powder coat build up or some odd shape to where the cone is hitting. Another thing to look at is if the cone is bottoming out. The 1 ton axle hub is huge and a lot of machines don't have a big enough cup for the cone to sink into. The tire will slip just a bit on the setup sometimes.

The old thin steel wheels could easily be front coned. The thicker the wheel the more important it becomes to balance off the plane that the wheel mounts with. Ideally you want to recreate the exact setup that is holding the wheel on.

With all that you would be surprised with how many shops don't have the right equipment or try and get by with half ass setups or work arounds. There was a Ford Dealer down the street from our shop that would send us their business when they couldn't figure out wheel problems. I never found anything that was some impossible to fix issue. Just poor work. The hardest part of the automotive business was finding and keeping good workers. The dealership went out of business after the owner got caught embezzling from the company.

 

[oops]

This is a superb thread. Impressive knowledge and investigation. Excited to witness the conclusion. Well done gentlemen.

 

[dew34]

I have 2 sets of tremor wheels spare included all 10 have this bulge both sets have mileage and ride perfect no vibrations at all . 1 set is on my truck , 1 set is a new take off from a 2021 . I installed the take off set for 1000 miles just to make sure they were good . Hope you get it figured out , I tend to think it is a tire issue but not for the reason you might think , May be out of round or some other construction issue .

 

[Dirt_Diver]

I have 2 sets of tremor wheels spare included all 10 have this bulge both sets have mileage and ride perfect no vibrations at all . 1 set is on my truck , 1 set is a new take off from a 2021 . I installed the take off set for 1000 miles just to make sure they were good . Hope you get it figured out , I tend to think it is a tire issue but not for the reason you might think , May be out of round or some other construction issue .

Very possible it's not separated at all and just poor construction. I'm a powertrain design engineer by day for a major auto maker. I've studied many failure modes in tires, but tires are not my area of expertise. From my understanding tires should have indentations where the belting assembly joins, but #1 quality tires (not ones sold at steep discounts at places like like Walmart) shouldn't have a bulge like this. These tires, especially the one pictured, would not pass our QC standards at my company. I'll update the post after I get to the dealer sometime this week. I'm sure they are just going to order new tires though. I might get the same crap quality lol. If I do I'll just pull them and replace with toyo's. I checked a set of my 37" toyo MT's and they have zero bulging anywhere. They also ride smooth and balance easy. This thing will shake your teeth out towing my trailer. You can't keep anything on the dash or the center console. It will shake it off at 75 mph.

 

[stufarmer]

If what you're describing is the Dip in the Sidewall, it could very well be where the belts come together. These are 14 ply Tires. The Sidewalls feel as Stiff and Thick as the Tires on my F450.

 

[Dirt_Diver]

If what you're describing is the Dip in the Sidewall, it could very well be where the belts come together. These are 14 ply Tires. The Sidewalls feel as Stiff and Thick as the Tires on my F450.

The dips are there for sure. These are bulges. The 3 dips where the belts come together are not in the same place.

 

[dew34]

Very possible it's not separated at all and just poor construction. I'm a powertrain design engineer by day for a major auto maker. I've studied many failure modes in tires, but tires are not my area of expertise. From my understanding tires should have indentations where the belting assembly joins, but #1 quality tires (not ones sold at steep discounts at places like like Walmart) shouldn't have a bulge like this. These tires, especially the one pictured, would not pass our QC standards at my company. I'll update the post after I get to the dealer sometime this week. I'm sure they are just going to order new tires though. I might get the same crap quality lol. If I do I'll just pull them and replace with toyo's. I checked a set of my 37" toyo MT's and they have zero bulging anywhere. They also ride smooth and balance easy. This thing will shake your teeth out towing my trailer. You can't keep anything on the dash or the center console. It will shake it off at 75 mph.

Thats crazy ! The vibration is all the time or only towing ? You could put the spare tire on in the place of the tire that would not balance while it is a steel rim it is the same tire size . Process of elimination lol

 

[Dirt_Diver]

Dealer ordered 5 new tires. I didn't see a report, but the service man said they were "50+ pounds out" on the road force.

 

[Harzack223]

After a previous thread mentioning this I went out and checked my tires. Two of mine seem to have small bulges on the outside of the tires. However my truck rides smooth as butter, I will continue to monitor them for any changes and replace if needed.

 

[dew34]

Dealer ordered 5 new tires. I didn't see a report, but the service man said they were "50+ pounds out" on the road force.

Good deal let us know how it rides after the change !

 

[Dirt_Diver]

I got my new tires in and they also scored high road force values. The crown on these tires makes for awful road manners. They just wander all over the lane. Even with zero pressure they are crowned. The tread is also not round. If you were to make a drawing from the tire profile and zoom in it would look like a saw tooth with the tread design. They really are pretty horrible tires. It seems some people like them, but I don't know why they would. BFG and Toyo make much better tires IMO. Anyways, I took them to a tire shop and paid to have the new set trued (shaved) and balanced. This removed the crown and made the lugs concentric to the axle. The truck tracks straight and no vibrations now.

When people stop getting free money and stock normalizes again I'll get some new tires. I can at least get some miles out of these OEM tires now. I did pay a lot for them lol.

 

[stufarmer]

I didn't care for they way the Goodyears felt either. I live in a City and do mostly Interstate driving. These, like many aggressive Off Road tires share the same Driving complaints. I chose a more All Terrain/Hybrid tire to replace the Duratracs almost immediately. Night and day difference. With only a couple hundred miles on the Goodyears, I was able to sell the Tire/Wheel set for $1500. That eased my new Tire/Wheel purchase considerably.

 

[legmar]

I noticed these “bumps” on all 4 of my tires as well.

This tire is more pronounced than the others though.