Help - Power to wheels killed in sand??

[1337logan]

Was in some deep sand this weekend and was trying to spin my tires really slowly to mimic Toyota's crawll control (see my other post). I had the following settings: traction control off (via dash button), 4L, locked rear. I was just barely up to my diff in sand. I was literally pushing my gas pedal all the way to the floor and nothing was happening, no revving, no actual response from the truck--my driveline was clear and I should have had sufficient torque, but nonethless didn't even feel the engine working. This happened in forward and reverse. When I toggled 4H/4L and toggled my traction control I got power back. But, I'm assuming I was doing something wrong here and this is a known issue. This also happened to me in the snow last winter. What's causing this?? My buddy mentioned that his ford van does this when the bumpers detect things that are two close, ie.., when parking, but I don't think anything was that high and I didn't see any indicators.

 

[stufarmer]

On my previous Ford trucks, I had to be moving while I engaged 4x4 and other drive modes. Then come to a complete stop, engage low range, continue on my way. Once you're in a traction needed situation and you're not locked in 4x4, 90% of the time you're shit out of luck. On Fords, you have the option to leave the Hubs in the Lock position permanently, seasonly or each time you prepare for your off road trip. If you leave the Hubs unlocked, you're relying on their Vacuum engagement. The system works fine, it's just not instantaneously. Simple words. Be engaged, drive mode chosen while moving before entering your 4x4 challenge.

 

[Vermonster]

Boy - that sure sounds like some sort of traction control, eh? I’m curious to hear what others say around that. I know you reported having it off, but I wonder if it resets when in low range.

On a non-Ford, my BMW has a “traction control off” button, but I also have to hold it down to turn off the dynamic stability control…that’s not nearly as obvious. Not sure if Ford has something like this.

It’s concerning, because traction control sucks more than is helpful in all of my examples.

 

[Smindustries]

Once you're in a traction needed situation and you're not locked in 4x4, 117% of the time you're shit out of luck.

The latest metrics came in, so I updated your number.

 

[Smindustries]

It’s concerning, because traction control sucks more than is helpful in all of my examples.

I haven't had occasion to use the Snow/Sand mode on the Tremor, however I have used Toyota's sand mode in their CRAWL Control. It's basically magic. Check this out. One cannot reproduce what the computers are doing as quickly as they do it. Anyone can get unstuck:

Edit: I see the OP linked this video in another thread. I first had it in a Land Cruiser, and it was wonderful.

 

[500mag]

You don't want 4L in deep sand. Stick to 4H, lock the rear, feather the gas, and keep momentum.

 

[Backslider]

You don't want 4L in deep sand. Stick to 4H, lock the rear, feather the gas, and keep momentum.

This!

Airing down will help a lot as well.

 

[DIG]

I just had my truck in deep sand mode in 4L and 4 Hi this weekend. I’m pretty sure when you select deep sand it shuts the traction control off for you ( says on the screen). Maybe you were turning the traction control back on and the computer/truck didn’t like it.

 

[slowninja14]

Or the proximity sensors where detecting that you were too close to something?

 

[1337logan]

LOL I know how to drive in snow and sand. This was purely for trying to mimic the crawl control that toyota has--and it worked. I just kept running into this traction/power override issue.

Does anyone have any ideas on what would completely kill all power to all wheels besides traction control. That is, assuming I only pushed the button once, and didn't hold it (maybe that was the issue).

 

[greatoppressor]

Others have already mentioned the various states of "off" that traction control has, but I'm more wondering if @slowninja14 is onto something with the anti-collision system. When buried that deep in sand, perhaps the forward and rear proximity sensors are thinking you're about to run into something and won't allow you to move?

-SR-

 

[500mag]

Ye

This!

Airing down will help a lot as well.

Yes, but I only do that if I have to, not routinely, as it is a hassle.

 

[Loshad]

"When buried that deep in sand, perhaps the forward and rear proximity sensors are thinking you're about to run into something and won't allow you to move?"

Wait, I bought a monster truck that won't let me run over Zombies or, worse, Extinction Rebellion terrorists at the beach trying to stop me from running over sand fleas?

 

[FT_Guest3342]

Others have already mentioned the various states of "off" that traction control has, but I'm more wondering if @slowninja14 is onto something with the anti-collision system. When buried that deep in sand, perhaps the forward and rear proximity sensors are thinking you're about to run into something and won't allow you to move?

-SR-

Although it would not surprise me if the truck was trying to out think us, it seems like this would be a bad idea.

What about an override? There are many times where actual contact is desired. Police Pitt Maneuver comes to mind. Also pushing a snow plow. How about pushing another car?

I think with limited slip in the front and lockers behind, your best bet is to completely turn off traction control (hold the button) and go from there.

 

[SVT4X4]

Actually what triggers more traction control intervention (even when switched off) in situations like this is the rear locker being engaged. Try next time with the locker off, and you will have wheel speed. It seems counterintuitive but supposedly Ford has built some extra safety's when using the locker. We figured this out playing in the sand dunes, then doing some research.

I have been working on a solution as you can't fix this with software or Forscan. The Transfercase Control Module sends the signal to the rear axle which is not full voltage, it is a duty cycle that is at almost 100% to start with and then drops. Running full voltage to the coil that engages the locker will burn it up over time. If you look only people were selling relays and a kit to do this, but most stopped because of hurting the locker. One day I will figure out the best most economical way to do this that won't hurt the locker and then can bypass the factory system.

 

[ltr]

There's nothing that prevents you from running into things ieproximity sensor. Just needed to play with the traction control button some more.

 

[Loshad]

Remember that thread where the guy did a vid about using braking to get more traction to the wheel(s) not spinning? I tried this on some slippy dirt and it worked like a charm. As I recall I was in 4H but the diff was not locked. I realize this is different but it is related, sorta.

 

[tlr]

My wife has a Navigator and something similar happened last winter with snow and ice. she couldn't get out of our drive way. I wasn't there to see what was going on but it sounded like the truck was doing too much thinking. she had the smarts to collect some wood and even ash from the fireplace to help her get out. She was pissed to say the least, that much money for a vehicle that should perform and it just flat out was preventing her from doing anything. Yes she tried all different drive modes including deep snow and ice.

 

[Apparition]

Actually what triggers more traction control intervention (even when switched off) in situations like this is the rear locker being engaged. Try next time with the locker off, and you will have wheel speed. It seems counterintuitive but supposedly Ford has built some extra safety's when using the locker. We figured this out playing in the sand dunes, then doing some research.

I have been working on a solution as you can't fix this with software or Forscan. The Transfercase Control Module sends the signal to the rear axle which is not full voltage, it is a duty cycle that is at almost 100% to start with and then drops. Running full voltage to the coil that engages the locker will burn it up over time. If you look only people were selling relays and a kit to do this, but most stopped because of hurting the locker. One day I will figure out the best most economical way to do this that won't hurt the locker and then can bypass the factory system.

I thought the locker auto unlocked at something like 20mph. The Raptor on the otherhand can run much faster.

 

[Dissident]

I hold the traction control button till its off i do that twice. Also in this situation with sand to make sure all 4 are spinning you should apply a little brake with your gas to lock up the front wheels.