GCWR only

[MCTremor]

EDIT:
OOPS! so just went back to the Air Bags post and read a little further ahead than the search function took me and turns out I am an idiot. The GCWR is standardized which makes the brochure much more understandable now. Man you'd think those 4 words would be added if they speak about possibly exceeding trailer weight first.. oh well.

Orginal:
First off, hello everyone I just found this forum and have had my 2020 7.3 F-250 since March of last year (2020). I needed something a little more potent than my 2013 F150 as horses entered my life since I ordered the 150.

This brings me to my question I see on the 5th-wheel / Gooseneck brochure that the Tremor F-250 with 7.3 has a GCWR of 24,900. My question is, is this the same across the board for all 250 Tremors with the 7.3? My wife and I have not yet upgraded to a gooseneck and I know I'm well within ranges for the bumper pull we have now, but I want to make sure when we do upgrade we can actually add horses to the trailer and not tip over the GCWR.

Yes I have been reading other threads, and every time I see someone touch on figuring the GCWR it ends up going to payload.

Example of my situation. Truck curb weight comes in at 7,121 ((not verified by CAT scale)). Brochure states GCWR of 24,900. When I combine the rated gooseneck of 17,500 to curb weight I come in at 24,621.

Does this mean if pin weight wasn't exceeded and payload stayed under my 2879 rating that I could theoretically have a total weight of 17,500 or 17,779? OR are these trucks restricted by options not on the brochure and my true GCWR is different than the 24,900?

Sorry, I know that is a lot for someone that doesn't even have to worry about the trailer just yet.

 

[Loshad]

Every truck is going to be a little different based on options but as I see it there will be a max GCWR only achieved by an XL or XLT 2WD gasser with single cab and no ash trays. Everything above that will have the same GCWR but the towable/haulable weights will come down rapidly as cab configurations and other options increase the curb weight, right?

 

[MCTremor]

Every truck is going to be a little different based on options but as I see it there will be a max GCWR only achieved by an XL or XLT 2WD gasser with single cab and no ash trays. Everything above that will have the same GCWR but the towable/haulable weights will come down rapidly as cab configurations and other options increase the curb weight, right?

So there is no reliable way to determine a truck's true GCWR that isn't a bare bones truck?

I used to think I understood this, but apparently I do not.

 

[rhines81]

If you go by stickers, your GCW = GVWR (vehicle) + GVWR (trailer). The GCWR is what Ford says it is 24,900#. If your vehicle has a stickered GVWR of 10,000#, then your trailer cannot have a GVWR sticker of greater than 14,900#.
If you go by actual weights, your actual GCW = GVW (vehicle) + GVW (trailer). The GCWR is still what Ford says it is 24,900#. If your vehicle has an actual GVW of 7,121# (plus your additional hitch weight - let's use 1800# as an example) or 8,921# while towing, then your trailer cannot have a GVW greater than 15,979#.

 

[MCTremor]

If you go by stickers, your GCW = GVWR (vehicle) + GVWR (trailer). The GCWR is what Ford says it is 24,900#. If your vehicle has a stickered GVWR of 10,000#, then your trailer cannot have a GVWR sticker of greater than 14,900#.
If you go by actual weights, your actual GCW = GVW (vehicle) + GVW (trailer). The GCWR is still what Ford says it is 24,900#. If your vehicle has an actual GVW of 7,121# (plus your additional hitch weight - let's use 1800# as an example) or 8,921# while towing, then your trailer cannot have a GVW greater than 15,979#.

OK so the 24,900# is the standardized limit regardless of options added correct?

That would mean if the truck and all the cargo minus trailer weighed 12,000# then the trailer itself could theoretically weigh in at 12,900# itself empty? Really just want to make sure I get the right size trailer down the line and not over do it, this is my 2nd "forever" truck now and don't really want to trade up from here if I can help it.

 

[rhines81]

OK so the 24,900# is the standardized limit regardless of options added correct?

That would mean if the truck and all the cargo minus trailer weighed 12,000# then the trailer itself could theoretically weigh in at 12,900# itself empty? Really just want to make sure I get the right size trailer down the line and not over do it, this is my 2nd "forever" truck now and don't really want to trade up from here if I can help it.

The weight of the truck is the actual weight of the truck PLUS the hitch weight when towing. This combined should not exceed the GVWR of your truck. My F250 Tremor GVWR is 10,000#. So if my truck weighs 8,000# without a trailer and the hitch weight of the trailer adds 2,000# then I have reached the total GVWR of the truck itself. Also, you need to make sure that by adding the 2,000# hitch weight, that you are not exceeding your truck's payload capacity (or the rear axle capacity). I can tow a trailer up to 14,900# and not exceed the GCWR of 24,900#.
Edit: since 2,000# of the trailer weight is transfered to the truck at the hitch, the axle weight on the trailer would be 2,000# less - so could probably go up to a 16,900# trailer with all considered if that doesn't exceed the tow rating (which is 15,000# for bumper tow, higher for 5th wheel)

 

[SuperNewbie]

F350 FX4 diesel gets you 30,000lb GCWR.
Maybe this is more the route you need to go if you’re worried about the stickers.

 

[MCTremor]

The weight of the truck is the actual weight of the truck PLUS the hitch weight when towing. This combined should not exceed the GVWR of your truck. My F250 Tremor GVWR is 10,000#. So if my truck weighs 8,000# without a trailer and the hitch weight of the trailer adds 2,000# then I have reached the total GVWR of the truck itself. Also, you need to make sure that by adding the 2,000# hitch weight, that you are not exceeding your truck's payload capacity (or the rear axle capacity). I can tow a trailer up to 14,900# and not exceed the GCWR of 24,900#.
Edit: since 2,000# of the trailer weight is transfered to the truck at the hitch, the axle weight on the trailer would be 2,000# less - so could probably go up to a 16,900# trailer with all considered if that doesn't exceed the tow rating (which is 15,000# for bumper tow, higher for 5th wheel)

That really clears things up. Thank you!

 

[MCTremor]

F350 FX4 diesel gets you 30,000lb GCWR.
Maybe this is more the route you need to go if you’re worried about the stickers.

I didn't really want a diesel knowing this was for at least a time would be my DD and was more concerned about getting the 4.30 gears. The dealer actually had to have this truck sent from WV to SC. At the time I made the rookie mistake of assuming a gooseneck wasn't as heavy as they actually are, but with getting re-educated on the ratings by rhines my truck should be plenty for what I need now and in the near future. Hopefully, with good care it will last just as long as the 6.7s the real challenge will be not adding a whipple to the top and getting only a couple hundred foot pounds from that 1,050

 

[Macgyver515]

The weight of the truck is the actual weight of the truck PLUS the hitch weight when towing. This combined should not exceed the GVWR of your truck. My F250 Tremor GVWR is 10,000#. So if my truck weighs 8,000# without a trailer and the hitch weight of the trailer adds 2,000# then I have reached the total GVWR of the truck itself. Also, you need to make sure that by adding the 2,000# hitch weight, that you are not exceeding your truck's payload capacity (or the rear axle capacity). I can tow a trailer up to 14,900# and not exceed the GCWR of 24,900#.
Edit: since 2,000# of the trailer weight is transfered to the truck at the hitch, the axle weight on the trailer would be 2,000# less - so could probably go up to a 16,900# trailer with all considered if that doesn't exceed the tow rating (which is 15,000# for bumper tow, higher for 5th wheel)

I'm have not been able to locate the max gooseneck/fifth wheel numbers for the 7.3 f250, and 350 Tremor. How you seen the actual numbers listed by Ford? I found them for the diesel. Thanks.

 

[rhines81]

I'm have not been able to locate the max gooseneck/fifth wheel numbers for the 7.3 f250, and 350 Tremor. How you seen the actual numbers listed by Ford? I found them for the diesel. Thanks.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/...-guides/2021_Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide.pdf

F-250 page 24, 17,500# Gas 7.3
F-350 page 26, 20,000# Gas 7.3

 

[davidb1841]

You will exceed your Cargo Capacity and your axle capacity before you ever get close to GCWR or Towing capacity....in almost all situations.

The big number is Cargo Capacity. My F250 6.7 Lariat Ultimate Tremor weighs 8600LBS with Gas, Dog, wife and a tool box mostly empty (I weighed it). My GVWR is 10800...If you drop an 11000 LBS fifth wheel in the bed with a 2200 LBS pin weight (typical Pin Weight is 20 %)...your at your max....no coolers no luggage...no nothing else not even the cat. So if you expect to tow at weights approaching GCWR or towing capacity....you will far exceed your other numbers and be totally illegal and overloaded. One other thing of note......Most 11000 gvwr 5th wheels are considered half ton towable....be careful....your truck can tow less than you think (Legally)

 

[rhines81]

You will exceed your Cargo Capacity and your axle capacity before you ever get close to GCWR or Towing capacity....in almost all situations.

The big number is Cargo Capacity. My F250 6.7 Lariat Ultimate Tremor weighs 8600LBS with Gas, Dog, wife and a tool box mostly empty (I weighed it). My GVWR is 10800...If you drop an 11000 LBS fifth wheel in the bed with a 2200 LBS pin weight (typical Pin Weight is 20 %)...your at your max....no coolers no luggage...no nothing else not even the cat. So if you expect to tow at weights approaching GCWR or towing capacity....you will far exceed your other numbers and be totally illegal and overloaded. One other thing of note......Most 11000 gvwr 5th wheels are considered half ton towable....be careful....your truck can tow less than you think (Legally)

Bingo... which is why you really have to watch "how" the trailer is loaded. Ideally you want the trailer to carry most of it's capacity on it's own axles so your pin weight is minimized.

 

[DanMan583]

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/...-guides/2021_Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide.pdf

F-250 page 24, 17,500# Gas 7.3
F-350 page 26, 20,000# Gas 7.3

That’s the 2021 tow guide. OP said he has a 2020 model.
The page numbers are 23, & 25 in the 2020 towing guide, but the Gooseneck ratings are still the same.

 

[Donnie With A Dee]

The weight of the truck is the actual weight of the truck PLUS the hitch weight when towing. This combined should not exceed the GVWR of your truck. My F250 Tremor GVWR is 10,000#. So if my truck weighs 8,000# without a trailer and the hitch weight of the trailer adds 2,000# then I have reached the total GVWR of the truck itself. Also, you need to make sure that by adding the 2,000# hitch weight, that you are not exceeding your truck's payload capacity (or the rear axle capacity). I can tow a trailer up to 14,900# and not exceed the GCWR of 24,900#.
Edit: since 2,000# of the trailer weight is transfered to the truck at the hitch, the axle weight on the trailer would be 2,000# less - so could probably go up to a 16,900# trailer with all considered if that doesn't exceed the tow rating (which is 15,000# for bumper tow, higher for 5th wheel)

My understanding is it the actual weight of the combination not what the the vehicles are in rated for. Just because GVRW of the the truck is 10,000 doesn't mean your limited to a trailer with a GVWR of 14,900. Your trailer could have a higher rating as long as your actual GCWR doesn't physically exceed the 24,900. I have a 350 which has a GVWR of 11,300. I currently have a gooseneck flatbed on order that has a GVWR of 20,000. So between the unladen weight of the truck and the unladen weight of the trailer I should have a cargo carrying capacity of roughly 13,200 in order to stay under the 27,500 GCWR even though the sticker rating between the two is actually much higher. I should be legal as long as I stay under the 27,500.

 

[Macgyver515]

You will exceed your Cargo Capacity and your axle capacity before you ever get close to GCWR or Towing capacity....in almost all situations.

The big number is Cargo Capacity. My F250 6.7 Lariat Ultimate Tremor weighs 8600LBS with Gas, Dog, wife and a tool box mostly empty (I weighed it). My GVWR is 10800...If you drop an 11000 LBS fifth wheel in the bed with a 2200 LBS pin weight (typical Pin Weight is 20 %)...your at your max....no coolers no luggage...no nothing else not even the cat. So if you expect to tow at weights approaching GCWR or towing capacity....you will far exceed your other numbers and be totally illegal and overloaded. One other thing of note......Most 11000 gvwr 5th wheels are considered half ton towable....be careful....your truck can tow less than you think (Legally)

Helpful info as always, thanks....don't forget the cat!

 

[rhines81]

I have a 350 which has a GVWR of 11,300. I currently have a gooseneck flatbed on order that has a GVWR of 20,000. So between the unladen weight of the truck and the unladen weight of the trailer I should have a cargo carrying capacity of roughly 13,200 in order to stay under the 27,500 GCWR even though the sticker rating between the two is actually much higher. I should be legal as long as I stay under the 27,500.

In PA, I would be required to get a CDL or a class A non-CDL license, depending on whether I was towing commercial or recreational. They go by the combined sticker ratings here. Cannot exceed 26,000# GCVWR if towing anything over 10K with having the right license (and I have no interest in getting either). With a 24,900# GCVWR, I'm safe with a 10K GVWR truck and 14K GVWR trailer. I'll be towing around 12.5K commercially at times and my truck should be in the 9K area when loaded down with the trailer.

 

[davidb1841]

Download this file and change the .zip to .xlsx...it's the best towing calculator I have seen and it is an excel speadsheet...(if it works)

OK I tested this and it works.......Download it, rename the.zip to .xlsx...and enjoy!!

 

[davidb1841]

EDIT:
OOPS! so just went back to the Air Bags post and read a little further ahead than the search function took me and turns out I am an idiot. The GCWR is standardized which makes the brochure much more understandable now. Man you'd think those 4 words would be added if they speak about possibly exceeding trailer weight first.. oh well.

Orginal:
First off, hello everyone I just found this forum and have had my 2020 7.3 F-250 since March of last year (2020). I needed something a little more potent than my 2013 F150 as horses entered my life since I ordered the 150.

This brings me to my question I see on the 5th-wheel / Gooseneck brochure that the Tremor F-250 with 7.3 has a GCWR of 24,900. My question is, is this the same across the board for all 250 Tremors with the 7.3? My wife and I have not yet upgraded to a gooseneck and I know I'm well within ranges for the bumper pull we have now, but I want to make sure when we do upgrade we can actually add horses to the trailer and not tip over the GCWR.

Yes I have been reading other threads, and every time I see someone touch on figuring the GCWR it ends up going to payload.

Example of my situation. Truck curb weight comes in at 7,121 ((not verified by CAT scale)). Brochure states GCWR of 24,900. When I combine the rated gooseneck of 17,500 to curb weight I come in at 24,621.

Does this mean if pin weight wasn't exceeded and payload stayed under my 2879 rating that I could theoretically have a total weight of 17,500 or 17,779? OR are these trucks restricted by options not on the brochure and my true GCWR is different than the 24,900?

Sorry, I know that is a lot for someone that doesn't even have to worry about the trailer just yet.

Towing is a very complicated subject because so many numbers and acronyms are tossed about. Then it is further complicated by manufacture's claims. If you use the spread sheet above you are likely to be legal. I say likely because you do not want to exceed your tire ratings, wheel, or axel. So after you get this spreadsheet all green and good to go , Load up and go verify your rig.

You do not want to be hit by a drunk driver who kills some people and YOU are found to be at fault because one number was 50Lbs over!!

 

[rhines81]

Towing is a very complicated subject because so many numbers and acronyms are tossed about. Then it is further complicated by manufacture's claims. If you use the spread sheet above you are likely to be legal. I say likely because you do not want to exceed your tire ratings, wheel, or axel. So after you get this spreadsheet all green and good to go , Load up and go verify your rig.

You do not want to be hit by a drunk driver who kills some people and YOU are found to be at fault because one number was 50Lbs over!!

That is the 2nd biggest concern for me ... the 1st is that if I am forced to get a CDL, then I can't even enjoy 1 beer at a party without being considered legally drunk (no matter what I am driving), so I am staying under 26K period.