Unpopular Opinion: Diesel Emissions Systems are Awesome

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I was just driving down some Farm to Market roads the other day and some guy in a pickup ahead of me had to slow down behind someone else turning left, then veered into the shoulder on the right to sort-of pass them, and hit the gas and left this huge cloud of black soot I then drove through and inhaled.

And I thought to myself, I never have to deal with soot or stinky exhaust getting on me or my kid/family, never have to worry that when I leave my truck idling somewhere for a few minutes that I'm gassing the neighborhood, and generally am leaving the world around me less worse off than I could be.

A little inconvenience, I'll take it. Totally worth the 1-2mpg hit.

Also with the banks pedal monster, this thing still totally gets up and goes on freeway on-ramps or passing people on long 2-lane divided roads.

OP you have huge Swedish meatballs to voice that opinion here. Respect.

 

[MoKan]

I was just driving down some Farm to Market roads the other day and some guy in a pickup ahead of me had to slow down behind someone else turning left, then veered into the shoulder on the right to sort-of pass them, and hit the gas and left this huge cloud of black soot I then drove through and inhaled.

And I thought to myself, I never have to deal with soot or stinky exhaust getting on me or my kid/family, never have to worry that when I leave my truck idling somewhere for a few minutes that I'm gassing the neighborhood, and generally am leaving the world around me less worse off than I could be.

A little inconvenience, I'll take it. Totally worth the 1-2mpg hit.

Also with the banks pedal monster, this thing still totally gets up and goes on freeway on-ramps or passing people on long 2-lane divided roads.

The most dangerous PM is that which is 2.5 microns or smaller (PM2.5). A typical diesel DPF does not catch this size of particles.

Also, you can't see it. And it is not directly regulated as PM size is not specified, just total mass on a time and power basis (g/kW-hr).

Additionally, direct injection gasoline engines are nearly as bad as diesel engines.

 

[Baddestt]

These newer diesels are way nicer, much more powerful and quieter than the diesels of old.
However, these emissions systems are designed to fail on or after 100k miles. It will cost tons of money to replace. A sensor can leave you stranded hundreds of miles from home. I don't mind the CATand DPF.....but the egr will ruin half the life expenctancy

 

[Longrangehunter]

Why can't you? Electric vehicles can potentially put out way more torque than a diesel. At this point the technology is limited, but that's due to battery tech and not the viability of electric itself.

Because electric range falls on it's face with any sort of load, especially running the heater (which you would be, plowing snow). Not to mention that Lithium batteries tend to shit the bed when they're cold.

 

[Baddestt]

Because electric range falls on it's face with any sort of load, especially running the heater (which you would be, plowing snow). Not to mention that Lithium batteries tend to shit the bed when they're cold.

Exactly, and not to mention its much more pollution to make electric vehicles than the gas/diesel vehicles of today.

 

[fordguy74656]

Why can't you? Electric vehicles can potentially put out way more torque than a diesel. At this point the technology is limited, but that's due to battery tech and not the viability of electric itself.

I would be more concerned with salt and electrical components.

 

[Backslider]

I would be more concerned with salt and electrical components.

I wouldn't worry about it. Have you seen the underside of an EV? Sealed up better than a traditional vehicle - all electrical components safety tucked away behind a belly pan.

EV is capable of generating a LOT of immediate torque.

I'm fortunate to work for a company with the largest EV charging bank in my state, and one of the largest EV fleets. They are truly better vehicles in most performance aspects but battery technology keeps them behind. The reason I don't own one is the expense for what you get right now just isn't a value level I'm comfortable with. When that battery tech catches up, or photovoltaic paint is cheap and efficient, or both, EV vehicles will be the way to go.

Right now, for lots of reasons, gas or diesel is the better choice. Doesn't mean we can't use them cleanly and responsibly!

 

[Dissident]

The efficiency is both the success and the problem when it comes to electric vehicles.

Gas/Diesel engines are not efficient, they produce a lot of extra heat and energy gas is around 20% Diesel is ~40% but all that heat is pretty much happening if its running at 1000rpm or at 4000 rpm so the increase in load from things like tires, going slow or trailers doesn't have a huge effect on the overall range of the vehicle. you may lose 30 to 40% when towing 15000 lbs or crawling off road with aired down tires.


Electric on the other hand is extremely efficient almost every bit of energy on the vehicle is used to propel it forward and when you slow down you recoup as much as you can so that you don't lose it in the brakes as heat. But because of the high efficacy asking the drive train more work creates a linear demand on the amount of energy you need. So when you go from just the base vehicle to towing a trailer you might need 3x more energy instead this cuts your range in a third.

 

[greatoppressor]

I remember the first time I traveled to Europe (Paris, to be exact, for a work trip). I left the airport on a commuter train and arrived at the underground terminal near my hotel. When I emerged from underground, I was shocked by how strong the smell of diesel was that hung in the air. I already knew that most vehicles there were diesel, but it never occurred to me that it would have such a dramatic effect on the air quality of the city until it smacked me in the face. In Cincinnati, when you drive around certain neighborhoods in the downtown area, you see the disgusting layer of diesel soot that coats the buildings about 10-30 ft off the ground, and that's just about entirely from commercial vehicle traffic. I'm sure that's typical in many older downtown areas across the US. So, I get why we have those regulations here, and those systems certainly do an amazing job of cleaning up diesel emissions. But, like so many things, it comes with the downside of higher complexity/reliability/maintenance demands/costs which I don't want to have to deal with unless I absolutely need the benefits a diesel has to offer.

-SR-

 

[MTUcrash]

Another issue with EV that not many think about (especially those who have one) is where the power is coming from. For many areas this means coal power plants, or possibly the best way- nuclear. Next issue is, can the infrastructure handle the increased load as more people get them? I’m sure in many areas, the answer is NO. They already do rolling blackouts in certain areas when it gets too hot out because the system cannot handle the load of more air conditioners running. And of course there is the increased cost of electricity. If you honestly believe that there will be free charging points all over after it catches on big, then you will be badly mistaken. They will charge at all those current free places, most likely per Kw-Hr as is how you pay for home electricity, and the cost for electricity for everyone will increase in order to cover the additional increased infrastructure expenses.
I agree that electric is the future, but only if they get an increase in storage from the batteries, faster charge time, and take a really good look at more nuclear power.

 

[Big_Ed]

I like the no black stuff too but again, at the expensive of what? WAAYY more money to repair, being stuck on the side of the road because the DEF pump went out (mind you, entire engine and transmission are FINE, the vehicle should run fine and not leave you stranded but, NOPE no DEF, NO GO!)

Also, you mentioned the 1-2mpg hit? So in order to not pollute, we must but burn more fuel, use some stinky azz water in our exhaust system and if we don't by that stinking exhaust water at the fuel pumps we are buying plastic containers that we now throw away and unfortunately that was sent by diesel trucks to the store that it was purchased? While I understand that the lack of pollutants are important, sometimes I feel people miss the forest for the trees and forget that the savings come at a cost that they themselves don't notice elsewhere.

Not to mention the new factories that pollute the air to make the stinky water and the manufacturers polluting to make those new bottles and the trucks delivering those bottles to the plant that makes the stinky water. Also, what about the mining of the rare earth minerals required for the DPF? All the huge Diesel engines running to mine the stuff, which are exempt from DPF pollution regulation because they are in South America or Africa, then the trucks that carry the minerals to the port, where they are put on Diesel ships that are exempt from pollution controls, then trucks again to the plant that makes the actual DPF, or there might be another step required to process those minerals into the useable parts at more factories polluting the air, then put on trucks to assemble the DPF. So while we remove some pollutants from a small percentage of vehicles on the road, we created just as much pollution if not more by the additional mining and factories, and transportation required to get that part to the Ford plant to be installed. Then what about the waste created from all the failed or discarded DPF systems that are no longer in service..... Same with electric cars. No one stops to think about the pollution created to make all those batteries, from mining to factories, to delivery systems all of which create more pollution than what is saved by the electric vehicle itself. And what about the impact on the planet from all these future dead and wore out batteries lying around? We haven't figured out how to recycle them from what I've read, and even when we do, that will mean more delivery vehicles and more pollution from factories that break down the battery and then ship it to another factory to be made into something else. I know we need to protect the earth, but nothing governments do accomplish that. We might boast a reduction here in the USA, but you cannot tell me that pollution isn't increased other places on the planet by the added material mining and factories. Especially in third world countries that don't measure polution. If all that mining and all those factories were inside the USA, I think we would see an increase in pollution here, not a decrease. That is why "net zero carbon" footprint is so stupid. Pollute as much as you want, but plant enough trees and you can claim to be carbon neutral. You're still polluting dumbass......planting 1 million trees and driving an electric car doesn't remove all the pollution you are creating.
Rant over.....lol

 

[abill]

Not to mention the new factories that pollute the air to make the stinky water and the manufacturers polluting to make those new bottles and the trucks delivering those bottles to the plant that makes the stinky water. Also, what about the mining of the rare earth minerals required for the DPF? All the huge Diesel engines running to mine the stuff, which are exempt from DPF pollution regulation because they are in South America or Africa, then the trucks that carry the minerals to the port, where they are put on Diesel ships that are exempt from pollution controls, then trucks again to the plant that makes the actual DPF, or there might be another step required to process those minerals into the useable parts at more factories polluting the air, then put on trucks to assemble the DPF. So while we remove some pollutants from a small percentage of vehicles on the road, we created just as much pollution if not more by the additional mining and factories, and transportation required to get that part to the Ford plant to be installed. Then what about the waste created from all the failed or discarded DPF systems that are no longer in service..... Same with electric cars. No one stops to think about the pollution created to make all those batteries, from mining to factories, to delivery systems all of which create more pollution than what is saved by the electric vehicle itself. And what about the impact on the planet from all these future dead and wore out batteries lying around? We haven't figured out how to recycle them from what I've read, and even when we do, that will mean more delivery vehicles and more pollution from factories that break down the battery and then ship it to another factory to be made into something else. I know we need to protect the earth, but nothing governments do accomplish that. We might boast a reduction here in the USA, but you cannot tell me that pollution isn't increased other places on the planet by the added material mining and factories. Especially in third world countries that don't measure polution. If all that mining and all those factories were inside the USA, I think we would see an increase in pollution here, not a decrease. That is why "net zero carbon" footprint is so stupid. Pollute as much as you want, but plant enough trees and you can claim to be carbon neutral. You're still polluting dumbass......planting 1 million trees and driving an electric car doesn't remove all the pollution you are creating.
Rant over.....lol

We think a lot alike my brother!

 

[Big_Ed]

I respect everyone's opinions, even if I disagree. The OP's opinion was based on a certain aspect, which was that his truck didn't expose those around him to that big black cloud. I understand that. Unfortunately, the big black cloud that your vehicle doesn't blow out is just transferred to hundreds of smaller black clouds here in the USA and abroad to create every aspect of those DPF components and materials. I don't know how to do the exact math, but those ships alone that carry those components and parts actually burn dirty diesel like the cruise ships burn because they are exempt from being required to purchase the more expensive ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. Every part of creating and shipping that DPF introduces more and in some cases, dirtier pollution than that guys big black cloud created.

I also agree that electric vehicles are more efficient. I don't agree that they are better for the planet. Until we use electric equipment from mining to completion, and all the electric is produced without coal or nuclear, then we are just shifting pollution around, not eliminating it. Green electric tech cannot support our current needs. Hell, look at California, electric, coal, and nuclear combined right now cannot provide the needed electric, this the rolling brownouts or blackouts. Think of the draw when they are forced to add 100 percent electric vehicles. There is no way our existing power grid is ready for that kind of added draw, and no increase in green tech is going to fix that. We are going to have to build more coal burning or nuclear electric generation plants if we hope to supply the required infrastructure to support a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure. Especially in the densely populated areas where the current grid is already struggling. Battery tech isn't where it needs to be and I don't see it changing in my lifetime. I'm 51, btw...lol

 

[abill]

Another issue with EV that not many think about (especially those who have one) is where the power is coming from. For many areas this means coal power plants, or possibly the best way- nuclear. Next issue is, can the infrastructure handle the increased load as more people get them? I’m sure in many areas, the answer is NO. They already do rolling blackouts in certain areas when it gets too hot out because the system cannot handle the load of more air conditioners running. And of course there is the increased cost of electricity. If you honestly believe that there will be free charging points all over after it catches on big, then you will be badly mistaken. They will charge at all those current free places, most likely per Kw-Hr as is how you pay for home electricity, and the cost for electricity for everyone will increase in order to cover the additional increased infrastructure expenses.
I agree that electric is the future, but only if they get an increase in storage from the batteries, faster charge time, and take a really good look at more nuclear power.

Yup! These are points I was alluding to. Not that it actually gets spent where it belongs but I have used the fuel tax in the past when talking about this. When people use their home or work utility's to charge their cars, how does the money get put back into the infrastructure those EV's still use on a daily basis since it is not broken down in a way to do so. Fuel tax works well... you drive more, you pay more.

 

[oops]

I don't know how to do the exact math

Every part of creating and shipping that DPF introduces more and in some cases, dirtier pollution than that guys big black cloud created.

You are surprisingly certain of wonderings for not being able to do the math.

Mark Twain said:

It ain’t so much the things that people don’t know that makes trouble in this world, as it is the things that people know that ain’t so.

 

[AMTRV]

Wow! just wow!

 

[Loshad]

“Exactly, and not to mention its much more pollution to make electric vehicles than the gas/diesel vehicles of today.”

I used to think that but I had a chat just a week ago with a good friend who is famous in the e-car world. He and his mates at a small company here in LaLaLand developed a number of key technologies now used by Toyota, VW, etc. He said there’s no reason that lithium batteries can’t be economically and safely recycled.

 

[Mojave_Idiot]

I think it’s important to note that the location of where pollutants are entering the atmosphere is as important to consider as the amount. Centralized emissions can be mitigated more readily.

To that point, it is good to be able to point out how some of these new technologies effectively move around pollution in some form or another. However, let’s just take the cargo ships for example, these things aren’t floating down our interstates or through our neighborhoods.

 

[Critter]

I hate the smell of a treated system, but don't mind the smell of a typical non-treated system. That said, when asshats pass me when I am on my bicycle and "roll their coal" I pretty much beg them to stop so I can shove their head into the 10" exhaust tip.

Did you see where some fuck was ducking with some cyclists in Texas. Trying to roll coal on them and instead ended up running over 6 ?

 

[Big_Ed]

You are surprisingly certain of wonderings for not being able to do the math.

I don't need to know the math behind the energy created by a flame to know it will burn me. There is a thing such as common sense. But as I said, I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it. For the record, there is no way to calculate it even if I knew all the aspects because the countries that do the mining don't measure their air pollution nor is the air pollution m from all the ships carrying cargo measured.

Anyway, what is your point? Can you prove me wrong or are you just trolling like the other member that starts with an S that you hate so much for doing the same?